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French publisher arrested in London for refusal to tell police his passcodes

theguardian.com

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Re: French publisher arrested in London for refusal to tell police his passcodes

#211

Post by orra »

toyg wrote: post #159
orra wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ironically, this was largely done by self-declared leftists Eh, the Parliament Act 1911 was passed by a Liberal Government. > who utterly failed to anticipate how fascism could easily manifest through such a system. The Liberal Party, and its successor the Liberal Democrats, has long been in favour of electoral reform.

> Parliament Act 1911 was passed by a Liberal Government ... sustained by Labour MPs, and mostly in order to bust a ironclad Tory majority in the Lords that was effectively "ruining" every progressive bill. It was then further strengthened in 1949 (Lab) and 1999 (Lab). I mean, there is no shame in this: it was a worthy and progressive cause to drag a XVIII-century model (kicking and screaming) into modernity. It's ju…

This is useful context, however I wanted to make clear it was the 1911 Act that made the supremacy of the Commons; as you say it was further strengthened in 1949, by shortening the veto timescales.

Labour's position changing from 'abolish the house of lords' originally, to 'get rid of some hereditary peers' in 1999 was incredibly poor, as you say.

Re: French publisher arrested in London for refusal to tell police his passcodes

#212

Post by LawTalkingGuy »

abridgett wrote: post #27

It's even worse - under RIP act not only can you be "forced" to reveal any passwords: - the onus is on _you_ to "prove" that you don't know it or have forgotten it - you can be told not to reveal that you've told them the password Anyone administering systems might want to think about this, governments aren't known for good security.

> you can be told not to reveal that you've told them the password

This is a good reason to use numbered, pre-made, one-time-passwords and require a reason when using them. "AdminX lost fob - using override to reset creds." Requiring you to lie is one step past requiring you to remain silent.

If the 'next PW to be used' number increased on everyone's override-PWs it couldn't be hidden. Co-admins could know to check an audit log of changes.

Re: French publisher arrested in London for refusal to tell police his passcodes

#213

Post by LawTalkingGuy »

1827162 wrote: post #197
MagicMoonlight wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Charging under this law requires specific authorisation like most niche powers (eg charging someone for abducting their own child) So they wouldn’t charge you based off a random anonymous tip off. It would more be, a naked child was found in your house and now they’re charging you for not giving them the tapes with the videos on it.

What about spoofing IP addresses (bittorrent DHT / IPFS / deliberately faked Tor IP leaks / etc.) or a combined technique, so that the police think illegal material was shared from that IP, and when they come to investigate they find large quantities of random data, which they think is encrypted?

Modern PCs are as secure as a loaf of bread in a mob of seagulls.

Use malware to actually install sharing software and hide it from the user and at the router. Then use actual full-disk encryption software and make a real hidden partition and dump the bait files from the file sharing into it and leave the forensic traces. Then wipe the malware and delete the password and the FDE is unopenable but the courts will never believe the user.

Re: French publisher arrested in London for refusal to tell police his passcodes

#214

Post by wjnc »

Manuel_D wrote: post #23
phnofive wrote: post #2

The legal system in the UK recognizes several rights against self-incrimination, but there is a carve-out for the per se crime of failing to disclose a key to encrypted information - punishable by years in prison. How is this different than refusing to tell where you've buried the bodies? Why should the police be permitted to assume you're guilty and in possession of vital information under certain circumstances?

And perhaps more importantly, it becomes a de-facto crime to ever forget an encryption key. People forget the passkeys to crypto wallets all the time, losing millions. How can the police effectively prove that someone remembers the passcode? What if someone, after a few months in prison, says they've reconsidered and are willing to comply. They try to decrypt it but fail and subsequently say they the stress of incarc…

Everybody’s guilty! Got unexplained 0’s and 1’s on a USB? Must be a hidden partition.

Re: French publisher arrested in London for refusal to tell police his passcodes

#215

Post by southernplaces7 »

Paul-Craft wrote: post #170
1letterunixname wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has a specific name: inverted totalitarianism.

Yep. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism

One major problem with these descriptions of inverted totalitarianism is how subject they become to ideological preference, even by those who create them. Note that Sheldon Wolin came up with his definition in 2003 during the hysterical Bush years (hysterical on the part of both the government with its war on terror justifications and by the progressive left for styling Bush as a new Hitler).

Would he have applied the same label to the same things under Obama later? After all, the later president expanded on nearly everything Bush did and took it to new levels. Trump after him did the same thing in many ways too.

In all cases, criticism is often divided along ideological lines against tendencies that can be used in either direction with just as much evil or authoritarian intent, and this selective blindness by critics becomes idiotica and absurd.

Re: French publisher arrested in London for refusal to tell police his passcodes

#216

Post by flangola7 »

1827162 wrote: post #183
TeaDude wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also have apecific devolved laws that you can be arrested for illegal speech in your own home and your children can be interrogated about it.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/10/29/sending-the-thought... Yes, the Scottish Hate Crime bill. And as expected, they are trying to expand it to cover misogyny. So someone's going to end up serving time for a silly joke they made in a pub. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scots-give-backing-to-mak... https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/09/11/why-misogyny-must-n... https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/03/16/dont-mak…

I'm not going to get upset if sexist jerks get a little readjustment.

Re: French publisher arrested in London for refusal to tell police his passcodes

#217

Post by wcoenen »

JadedEngineer wrote: post #142

It's sad to see the UK as the non-EU, police state that it is today. Just 15 years ago it felt really free. I spent half of my 20s there and have great memories, but it's really gone downhill since then.

The news is always going to look worse than personal experience because of the selection effect: the worst events make the news.

If you look at the news from 15 years ago, it didn't look any better:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/aug/18/met-police-...

Re: French publisher arrested in London for refusal to tell police his passcodes

#218

Post by LawTalkingGuy »

1827162 wrote: post #183
TeaDude wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also have apecific devolved laws that you can be arrested for illegal speech in your own home and your children can be interrogated about it.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/10/29/sending-the-thought... Yes, the Scottish Hate Crime bill. And as expected, they are trying to expand it to cover misogyny. So someone's going to end up serving time for a silly joke they made in a pub. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scots-give-backing-to-mak... https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/09/11/why-misogyny-must-n... https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/03/16/dont-mak…

Scotland's problem is that mentioning a "protected characteristic" is enough to get you arrested if someone feels upset. The problem isn't the intent of the law but the incredibly low bar for injury and lack of sanctions for false and unreasonable reports letting the law itself be used for harassment.

I think I should be able to tell a joke "Two catholics and a jew ..." as long as it's not a veiled way to call for harm to anyone, and I don't think a joke about the sexes in a similar vein should be a problem.

But, if you physically attack a catholic because they're a catholic, or a woman because she's a woman, then that is a hate crime - where you're just looking for someone of a class you don't like to inflict punishment on. A sentencing modifier doesn't seem like a bad idea.

Re: French publisher arrested in London for refusal to tell police his passcodes

#219

Post by tristor »

flangola7 wrote: post #216
1827162 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/10/29/sending-the-thought... Yes, the Scottish Hate Crime bill. And as expected, they are trying to expand it to cover misogyny. So someone's going to end up serving time for a silly joke they made in a pub. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scots-give-backing-to-mak... https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/09/11/why-misogyny-must-n... https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/03/16/dont-mak…

I'm not going to get upset if sexist jerks get a little readjustment.

> I'm not going to get upset if sexist jerks get a little readjustment.

If we break down what you're saying, you're saying it's acceptable for the government to punish and "readjust" (euphemism for re-educate?) someone for mere speech, including /in the "privacy" of their own home/?

Attitudes like this are unfortunately prevalent in Europe, or these types of laws wouldn't pass. I reiterate my earlier comment, that only the US has any real protection for freedom of speech.

Re: French publisher arrested in London for refusal to tell police his passcodes

#220

Post by 1letterunixname »

c80e74f077 wrote: post #178
1letterunixname wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The proper personal data hygiene tips are: 0. Never take your primary personal or work cell phone to any demonstration 1. Cover your face, if you can, or wear anti-facial recognition makeup 2. Do not use social media from primary personal devices 3. Anyone intent on trying to join the cause is a cop. Until proven otherwise, anyone you meet is a cop 4. The standard response to any official questions in the future is t…

Guess what, #1 is illegal in France: “Nul ne peut, dans l'espace public, porter une tenue destinée à dissimuler son visage”[0] (No one may, in the public space, wear clothing intended to conceal his face). Anti-facial recognition makeup should be fine, though. For the time being. [0] https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/loda/article_lc/LEGIARTI00002...

Generally a question posed to French society: So is it illegal to wear Islamic clothing or be concerned with airborne spread of communicable disease?
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