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UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k

infosec.exchange

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Re: UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k

#211

Post by crimsoneer »

agilob wrote: post #121
makingstuffs wrote: post #86

I get a lot job offers in my LinkedIn inbox and newsletters from places like glass door as I like to keep my eye on the market. One thing I’ve been seeing a lot recently is salaries for dev roles steadily dropping in the UK. The concerning thing, in my opinion, is that the poster linked by OP seems disillusioned as to the standard of living in the UK. They specifically mention being paid £55k as being equivalent to $…

> They specifically mention being paid £55k as being equivalent to $100k in the US. It isn’t. I think you're missing some benefits. I don't know anything specific about this job offer and what would be on the paper offer, but UK public sector offers quite insane benefits compared to private sector, where salary might be like 50-60% of total compensation. Some I'm failiar with: free access to public nurseries (normal…

You do not get free nursery, gyms or car parking in UK public sector...

Re: UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k

#212

Post by ForHackernews »

_8j50 wrote: post #207
ForHackernews wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, it's fucking NASA. I'd probably work there for free just to be able to say I'd done it. "Oh, you got a lot of RSUs for your social media click-tracking? That's nice. I helped bullseye an asteroid 9.6 million km away, potentially saving every life on Earth. But yeah, that new infinite scroll is cool, too."

If it was the NSA I'd agree with you but NASA?? Their not famous for their infosec lol, I prefer actual wages.

https://fromthegreennotebook.com/2017/11/04/the-janitor-who-...

Re: UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k

#213

Post by SilverBirch »

Nextgrid wrote: post #186
SilverBirch wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the same reason that anyone works in the civil service. It's a very restrained pace of life, you literally have to count your hours and take time off to ensure you don't work more than 37.5 hours a week, there's flexibility to work from home and your working hours, the pension and the benefits are fantastic. If you live to work then this job isn't for you, but it's quite a nice job if you're not that invested in…

> If you live to work then this job isn't for you, but it's quite a nice job if you're not that invested in it. Seems like that would attract bullshitters who deliver the minimum they can get away with, and given it's the government and there will be no (skilled) oversight, they will get away with it and the mediocrity feedback loop continues.

Actually it tends to be the opposite, it ends up filled with highly qualified experts in their fields who are happier with a good work-life balance. Because it's government everything moves very slowly and there is very limited scope for advancement (the government doesn't grow like a company, and there's no outside competition so you can't jump to new jobs as much) so it's not a good place for bullshitters to thrive because you're going to be there a long time and if you get found out as a bullshitter no one will tkae you seriously. You can't just bullshit through a few years and then move to a different department or get a promotion, everything moves so slowly that if you start screwin things up people will actually notice (they won't fire you though).

Re: UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k

#214

Post by SilverBirch »

jojobas wrote: post #158
SilverBirch wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the same reason that anyone works in the civil service. It's a very restrained pace of life, you literally have to count your hours and take time off to ensure you don't work more than 37.5 hours a week, there's flexibility to work from home and your working hours, the pension and the benefits are fantastic. If you live to work then this job isn't for you, but it's quite a nice job if you're not that invested in…

If you're paid less, it generally means you're less useful to the society. They value you protecting the UK treasury less than they value you making silly landing pages. You can chill making landing pages just as well, just make them part-time.

The idea that your pay reflects your use to society is pretty eccentric.

Re: UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k

#215

Post by lazystar »

candiodari wrote: post #197
whatyesaid wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of how the HealthCare.gov website cost 2.1 billion and yet had countless issues when it was launched.

But you don't realize the name of the game in government is to "reasonably sabotage" projects to safeguard the existence of your own position. The costs this leads to are absolutely amazing because you cannot do anything, ever, anywhere. In one position I was baffled, but contacting someone reporting to me ... took a week. And not because he was being hired or on vacation. This is why the government uses outside cont…

the beaurocracy problem.... created to solve a specific need of the people, but once staffed, the goal of the beaurocracy becomes ensuring that its budget increases year over year.

Re: UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k

#216

Post by dan-robertson »

vidarh wrote: post #128
dan-robertson wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Payroll taxes matter to some extent when comparing employment in different tax regimes because they determine (some of) the total cost to the employer. They can also matter for contracting arrangements. Though the local job market probably matters more.

Yes, but the sub-thread here started with someone suggesting they'd be paying 50% tax, and when talking in terms of employees, it's not normal to include it. When including it, we're usually talking about total tax wedge rather than tax rate (e.g. see OECD Taxing Wages). Even so, as noted, you'd not hit 50% even with payroll taxes at anywhere near the income levels stated. At the stated 100k GBP contracted salary, yo…

Fair point. I was mostly responding to the bit from the root comment about the comparison between countries and not their incorrect understanding of taxes in the U.K.

Re: UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k

#217

Post by _8j50 »

ForHackernews wrote: post #212
_8j50 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was the NSA I'd agree with you but NASA?? Their not famous for their infosec lol, I prefer actual wages.

https://fromthegreennotebook.com/2017/11/04/the-janitor-who-...

Are you saying you would rather be that janitor than make decent money to support yourself/family? If so, by all means. I don't think most people agree with you though. Or maybe they do, what do I know.

Re: UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k

#218

Post by dan-robertson »

a_humean wrote: post #176
dubcanada wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part of > £55k as being equivalent to $100k in the US Is not? I don't see any argument for that not being correct. Everything you said about costs, sounds that exact same as $100k in the US. Unless you live in North Dakota, chances are you are paying pretty close to the same percentages for rent/foot in a larger city such as San Fran or Chicago. Not exactly sure what zone 5 is, but a rough search gave me $2500 f…

London is basically one big urban circle. Everything in London is directed towards the centre of the city. Zone 1-6 is roughly a measure your distance from the centre of London, which is also the centre of economic activity with many international HQs, banks, insurance markets, government departments, and startup offices based there. Its also where all of the major entertainment and tourist locations are. Zone 1 is t…

Someone earning 40k will still be on the 20p rate, so more like 30% marginal rate, 20-25% effective rate, even with a student loan.

Re: UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k

#219

Post by jojobas »

SilverBirch wrote: post #214
jojobas wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're paid less, it generally means you're less useful to the society. They value you protecting the UK treasury less than they value you making silly landing pages. You can chill making landing pages just as well, just make them part-time.

The idea that your pay reflects your use to society is pretty eccentric.

Welcome to the free market and economic utility.

Re: UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k

#220

Post by dan-robertson »

sandworm101 wrote: post #118

Outsiders miss the underlying class struggle here. When an employer underpays a position the door opens to nepotism and class discrimination. If the pay is below a reasonable wage for the associated costs, ie living in london, only those with outside income will apply. They take the position for the prestige and power the office conveys rather than the money paid. So it goes to the son-in-law of someone important, so…

I just don’t see that here at all. I read it as a job title that sounds more senior than it is, potentially underpaid for the civil service, with the numbers looking extra low because of the weird way that much comp comes in non-salary benefits (which some may not want).

Certainly I don’t think this position is some kind of reverse-sinecure that pays in political power. Mainly because I think it doesn’t really wield much power.

I don’t know which law firms you’re talking about but there are others which pay graduates well and I’m not really sure it’s very relevant to the discussion.

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