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The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

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Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#211

Post by [deleted] »

ccity88 wrote: post #76
sircastor wrote: post #70

I recall seeing commentary recently from mental health specialists that noted that young people are increasingly facing a sense of existential dread over climate change - that there's nothing they can do to stop it, and will feel the impact more heavily than previous generations. I wouldn't discount social media and related issues out of hand, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's a contributing factor. I understand…

You don't just develop existential dread about climate change out of nowhere. First comes awareness, in this case the younger generation grew up being educated about climate change. Then you get exacerbation/increased attention - in this case social media and traditional media which have fuelled doomsday rhetoric and alarmism in general. Not to say that it isn't a big issue, it's massive; but doesn't help that we're…

[deleted]

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#212

Post by Mordisquitos »

ilammy wrote: post #151
extasia wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That wouldn't explain such a drastic rise in one demographic (teenagers)

Explains it rather well: older people dismiss their symptoms as “not real illness” because that’s what society taught them when they were kids.

To me that seems like a purely post-hoc argument with no evidence to justify it.

For instance, imagine that the data were showing the opposite effect, that is, adults having a significantly greater increase in depression and anxiety than teenagers.

If that were the case, one could just as easily argue that it fits with the "our societies are so advanced that we can listen to mental illnesses" hypothesis quite well, because adults have the autonomy, resources, and maturity to get the attention they need to tackle their issues and symptoms. Teenagers don't, on the other hand, as they depend on their teachers and guardians and older adults often dismiss kids' symptoms as “not real illness” and just angst and moodiness.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#213

Post by p_j_w »

ipnon wrote: post #94
taylodl wrote: post #74

Seeing as how my daughter has gone through ten years of therapy due to depression I'll throw my hat in the ring and tell you what I think at least part of the problem is: Late stage, winner-takes-all & loser-gets-nothing, Capitalism. Those of us who are well-entrenched in our careers may not understand how vicious the world is for the entry-level and those aspiring to launch careers. The secondary schools preach and…

The US is so close to a near ideal mixed economy. If the cartels holding oligopolies on housing, healthcare, and education were disbanded life would be dare I say pleasant in America. Today GDP keeps rising because of a few free money trees, while quality of life for many is deteriorating. Becoming middle class is stressful here, and while it shouldn’t necessarily be easy it should at least be formulaic. Young people…

>If the cartels holding oligopolies on housing, healthcare, and education were disbanded life would be dare I say pleasant in America.

These are three of the most important things one needs in life, though. If there are cartels holding oligopolies on these, how can you possibly conclude that the US is close to a near ideal mixed economy?

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#214

Post by cornholio »

giantg2 wrote: post #173
cornholio wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree there is no statistical proof in the article, it's a very strong hypothesis: we somehow only 'listen' to the mental problems of female teens, who see geometric increases in self harm, suicide and various disorders, twice or three times the pre-social media levels. Yet other categories see linear or token increases. Could it be just a coincidence that young females are exactly the demographic that is con…

"that is constrained by a gender role where aesthetic appeal and social interactions are the most valuable assets?" In theory we should have seen a spike and then slow decline as gender norms and roles continue to become less segregating. "Yet other categories see linear or token increases." Yeah, because other categories may manifest their problems differently. Such as young men turning to violence and drugs more th…

[flagged]

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#215

Post by educaysean »

x3n0ph3n3 wrote: post #195
bigbillheck wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm very intrigued to hear how the cuddling that's happening college campuses isn't happening, since anyone can see it in real time They were saying the same things when I was in college 30 years ago.

It can be argued that it's been getting steadily worse over that entire period of time.

I agree. It's a natural condition of the human world and not directly attributable to any one specific cause. Life goes on.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#216

Post by giantg2 »

bittercynic wrote: post #64
zug_zug wrote: post #34

These always come up and there's always this internet-commenter tendency to be like "I KNEW IT: SMARTPHONES/INTERNET/LACK-OF-RELIGION/ABCDEFG ANYTHING OF THE LAST 20 YEARS I HATE", which is fine for a hypothesis and worth somebody saying once. But it's really just a hypothesis. Another hypothesis is that it's environmental. There's a lot of research showing depression and stress are correlated with inflammation. Ther…

I suppose there are different pollutants all the time, but the areas I'm familiar with (SF Bay and LA) have gotten much less polluted in the last few decades, at least by how they look and smell. I suspect our air and water is safer now than 20 years ago, and much safer than 40 years ago. Solitary entertainment has grown drastically more engaging in the last few decades, and it seems reasonable to think that it has c…

The first thing I thought of when they said pollution in this context was plastics. That's something that people have an increasing exposure to that also has a history of chemicals that are hormone disruptors. I don't think it covers the entire increase. But it could be one of many factors on the longer scale (not just the shorter term increase).

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#217

Post by scythe »

PuppyTailWags wrote: post #176
censor_me wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linking a podcast isn't very good sourcing. I'm very intrigued to hear how the cuddling that's happening college campuses isn't happening, since anyone can see it in real time.

Here is a list of the referred critiques in the show notes: The Miseducation of Free Speech ( https://www.virginialawreview.org/articles/miseducation-free... ) College and the “Culture War”: Assessing Higher Education’s Influence on Moral Attitudes ( https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/00031224211041... ) The Myth of the Campus Coddle Crisis ( https://academeblog.org/2018/12/28/the-myth-of-the-campus-co...…

It's not much easier to engage with ten articles of varying quality and varying levels of disagreement than with a podcast.

>The Miseducation of Free Speech

Does not focus on Haidt.

>College and the “Culture War”: Assessing Higher Education’s Influence on Moral Attitudes

Does not focus on Haidt.

>The Myth of the Campus Coddle Crisis

"This is not one of those laudatory reviews. Although I agree with many things they write, and share their general outlook in opposition to safetyism (protecting people from any possible harms, including offensive ideas) and in favor of free speech, I want to focus on my disagreements because dissent is more interesting and more important."

Dissents on specific political implications while agreeing with the wider point.

>What 'Safe Spaces' really look like on college campuses

Does not mention Haidt at all; focuses mostly on "safe spaces" in the narrow sense of support groups.

>Are College Campuses Really in the Thrall of Leftist Censors?

Tabloid piece; focuses primarily on political bias and not overall censorship; does not mention Haidt.

>Speaking Freely: What Students Think about Expression at American Colleges

From FIRE, whose leadership worked with Haidt on the book; presumably not that critical of Haidt. Skipped.

>Not all cultures are created equal’ says Penn Law professor in op-ed

Focuses on Amy Waxman, an infamously racist professor whom even "anti-woke" firebrand Norman Finkelstein has denounced. A bit of a strawman.

>Right Wing Media Has Tried to Stifle Student Speech at Evergreen State College

Does not focus on Haidt; essentially agrees by highlighting censorship on college campuses, but disputes whether it is primarily leftist.

>I'm a liberal professor, and my liberal students terrify me

Skipped. You know why.

>In College and Hiding from Scary Ideas

Paywall; title indicates that it agrees with Haidt.

Nowhere in this Gish gallop of links is there a serious critique of the analysis in The Coddling of the American Mind, except in the third link, where the author is explicitly saying he agrees with Haidt on most points. Using this to discredit Haidt as he discusses a completely different subject is not a very helpful contribution to the overall discussion.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#218

Post by obscurette »

I'm a father of teen kids, teacher and educator. I don't think that there is a single reason here. All mentioned things contribute – social media pressure, climate problems, economical crisis etc. But I'd like to add another one – declining quality of education. I see increasing number of teens depressed because they don't have teachers and their education isn't good enough for jobs they'd like to get in future. And at least some of them are certainly right: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32539424

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#219

Post by taylodl »

lezojeda wrote: post #86
taylodl wrote: post #74

Seeing as how my daughter has gone through ten years of therapy due to depression I'll throw my hat in the ring and tell you what I think at least part of the problem is: Late stage, winner-takes-all & loser-gets-nothing, Capitalism. Those of us who are well-entrenched in our careers may not understand how vicious the world is for the entry-level and those aspiring to launch careers. The secondary schools preach and…

Add increasing concentration of wealth in less and less people, increasing job insecurity due to technological advances rendering many jobs completely useless (and transfers even more wealth to those that are already haves and removes it even more from have-nots), the instant access to compare yourself to millions of others around the world... I seriously can't understand why some people scratch their heads around th…

These were all the things the kids were talking about in group therapy - and this was nearly 10 years ago!

BUT - I wouldn't expect people who haven't been paying attention to the environment to be paying attention to their children. Or maybe it's the other way around?

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#220

Post by crsv »

The main cause is the proliferation of social media. There's other factors of course, and I'm not dismissing any of the depth of nuance of all the externalities acting on that generation, but it's undoubtedly the thing that our societies and social structures aren't designed for: facebook and instagram.
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