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Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

reuters.com

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Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#211

Post by haakon »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #129
iambateman wrote: post #115

Some here have said it’s the SEC who should have a more collaborative spirit. But all of their incentives, job descriptions, and reason to exist are to _enforce laws_ not be chummy with startup executives. The “mean” approach to securities enforcement is what we as a society need…there are far too many scams and people who run them, and those scams seem especially concentrated within the crypto world. After the blitz…

In the blog past Coinbase General Counsel asks for "guidance". The guidance for future "crypto entrepreneurs" is going to come from the outcomes of these enforcement actions. CryptoExpert: "We want guidance. We want regulation." SEC: "Your product/service is a security." CryptoExpert: "No it's not!" Damodoran called cryptocurrency "currency made by the paranoid for the paranoid." [paraphrase] Let's be honest, coopera…

> The "cryptocurrency" concept seems to be based on a mistrust of government-issued currency and a mistrust of government more generally.

This is the classic notion of cryptocurrency, but the field has grown and changed a lot. People don't mint NFT collections and dabble in metaverse tokens as a middle-finger to the state. The VC-funded cryptocurrencies of the last cycle are obviously centralized and are far removed from any cypherpunk notion.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#212

Post by ryan_lane »

femiagbabiaka wrote: post #86
vyrotek wrote: post #9

Interesting coincidence. From yesterday: "Cathie Wood of ARKK sold 160,887 shares of Coinbase, COIN, today." https://twitter.com/unusual_whales/status/163833492762331136...

The entire executive staff has been purely selling for months. xD

Execs are required to be on schedules, and the norm for employees being paid in equity is to sell to diversify. There's nothing abnormal about this.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#213

Post by soco »

ALittleLight wrote: post #194
iambateman wrote: post #115

Some here have said it’s the SEC who should have a more collaborative spirit. But all of their incentives, job descriptions, and reason to exist are to _enforce laws_ not be chummy with startup executives. The “mean” approach to securities enforcement is what we as a society need…there are far too many scams and people who run them, and those scams seem especially concentrated within the crypto world. After the blitz…

We as a society need laws and regulations that can't be clearly articulated or explained by the agencies explicitly tasked with doing that?

SEC (or other agencies) are definitely not tasked to explain the laws and regulations, they're not offering consulting services either. Coinbase can pay lawyers to explain the laws to them, or get in court (which they will, eventually) to get a judge explain it for good.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#214

Post by soco »

roenxi wrote: post #193
lelanthran wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can take my money and put it into a slot machine, gamble it on horses, gamble it on sports games. I can buy useless thousand dollar sneakers, I can buy pokemon cards. I can waste my money on absurdly overpriced art, give it to scammy non-profits, donate it to scammy spoiler political candidates. > In some states I can use my money to hire hookers, or buy drugs. > But if I want to buy crypto, all of a sudden that…

He probably would. I have access to a bunch of good investment opportunities that US citizens don't have, because they are "protected" from accidentally making money. I have a stack of little pamphlets outlining interesting investment deals in Australia all labelled with "don't show this to anyone in the US, if you are a US person this isn't for you and we ask that you don't read it". This isn't crypto, only standard…

I guess if you have a problem with the laws of the country or state you are in, you should take it with your local legislator. They're the only ones able to do something about it. Skirting the legislation because one considers it "stupid" is not gonna bring anybody very far.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#215

Post by hoseja »

iambateman wrote: post #115

Some here have said it’s the SEC who should have a more collaborative spirit. But all of their incentives, job descriptions, and reason to exist are to _enforce laws_ not be chummy with startup executives. The “mean” approach to securities enforcement is what we as a society need…there are far too many scams and people who run them, and those scams seem especially concentrated within the crypto world. After the blitz…

They are chummy with all the others is the thing though.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#216

Post by friend_and_foe »

dkrich wrote: post #181

From afar what appears to be going on here is that the sec did nothing for years and years then ftx blew up and sbf went to jail and within the sec there was fear that they appeared asleep at the wheel. So they oversteered and decided to drum up some complaints to look like they are taking action but in reality probably don’t fully understand the space so aren’t able to clearly articulate a case.

It's not quite even that. The SEC has an interest in setting precedent that expands its regulatory authority as much as possible. They don't want to answer the question "what is a security" clearly because they want to keep their options open. They're likely to hamstring themselves if they do that. Theyre better off doing what theyre doing, saying "99% of cryptos are securities" and being vague beyond that. It gives them regulatory authority over the whole space without restricting their available interpretations, and allows them to selectively enforce.

The other side of that is, securities law is bullshit. Whether something is a security or not depends on how it's packaged. If you tell people what a security is clearly, they'll make sure to legalese the technicalities and not sell "securities." The whole concept needs to be rethought, not because of crypto, the problem has always been there, it's just becoming more obvious.

As far as them falling asleep at the wheel, they've always done that. Survivorship bias aside, the SEC almost never catches actual fraudulent violations in the wild before disaster. Now, the SEC doesn't prosecute fraud, it sues for civil violations, but it's stated reason for existence is to protect the public. They've successfully done very little of that.

What I think is going to happen is it's all going to blow up in their face. Theyre selectively enforcing so as to establish precedent in court favorable to their broadest interpretation of their regulatory authority, as is their prerogative. But I think theyre going to go through a cascade of failed lawsuits due to their public image as a failure and being unwilling to clarify, some of which will set precedent that neuters them in the crypto space. And that's where the securities markets are going, infrastructure wise. Theyre fucking up, and it's going to take a non polarized congress to regulate any of this stuff effectively.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#217

Post by soco »

ETH_start wrote: post #182
lottin wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so much protecting you, but ensuring a fair playing ground. If crypto is "finance", then it has to be subject to financial regulations.

There is no such law. Pokemon is no different than a digital token with respect to the applicability of securities law, the SEC's inconsistent treatment of the respective assets notwithstanding. And your argument begs the question of why any restrictions should be placed on people buying/selling financial products to regiment how they do it.

Maybe if we compared the market size of the Pokemon cards trading with the crypto trading, and also the risks of one compared to the other, we might get a hint why one is in the spotlights while the other not. Not all problems can and have to be addressed at once, so having a priority list to apply your limited resources makes only sense.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#218

Post by puzzlingcaptcha »

ETH_start wrote: post #180
lelanthran wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can take my money and put it into a slot machine, gamble it on horses, gamble it on sports games. I can buy useless thousand dollar sneakers, I can buy pokemon cards. I can waste my money on absurdly overpriced art, give it to scammy non-profits, donate it to scammy spoiler political candidates. > In some states I can use my money to hire hookers, or buy drugs. > But if I want to buy crypto, all of a sudden that…

A huge number of crypto projects never advertised their tokens as an investment, and explicitly and repeatedly stated that they are not investments and should not be expected to appreciate, yet the SEC still charged them with promoting an unregistered security.

Marketing a token as an investment and selling unregistered securities are two different things. You can do the latter without the former and it's still illegal.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#219

Post by [deleted] »

detrites wrote: post #207
lottin wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so much protecting you, but ensuring a fair playing ground. If crypto is "finance", then it has to be subject to financial regulations.

The definition of what "finance" is seems somewhat arbitrary doesn't it? Person A: spends $1k per year on lottery tickets and doesn't win anything. Person B: puts $1k into BTC at the years high and sells at the bottom getting back $200. Both people had the goal of making a double percentage return. One had an arguably significantly higher chance of doing that. One person was able to buy their lottery tickets at the c…

[deleted]

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#220

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

haakon wrote: post #211
1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the blog past Coinbase General Counsel asks for "guidance". The guidance for future "crypto entrepreneurs" is going to come from the outcomes of these enforcement actions. CryptoExpert: "We want guidance. We want regulation." SEC: "Your product/service is a security." CryptoExpert: "No it's not!" Damodoran called cryptocurrency "currency made by the paranoid for the paranoid." [paraphrase] Let's be honest, coopera…

> The "cryptocurrency" concept seems to be based on a mistrust of government-issued currency and a mistrust of government more generally. This is the classic notion of cryptocurrency, but the field has grown and changed a lot. People don't mint NFT collections and dabble in metaverse tokens as a middle-finger to the state. The VC-funded cryptocurrencies of the last cycle are obviously centralized and are far removed…

Are you telling me Lindsay Lohan is not a cypherpunk.
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