Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

old.reddit.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 314 posts

Re: HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

#211

Post by pbhjpbhj »

AuthorizedCust wrote: post #80
m463 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a brother HL-2360DW circa 2017, with a new brother large-size authentic toner cartridge. I never hooked it to the internet, never updated the firmware. And it started saying low toner even though I've put (far?) less than 250 sheets through it. There was a way to turn off the low toner warnings, I did it, and seem to be ok, but it makes me wonder. EDIT: wow, it sells for $449 on amazon. I paid $115 in 2017.

The Amazon price is high because you’re buying a discontinued product from a niche seller.

Or in other words, the price is high because there is consumer demand for printers that work, without advertising, without drm, without screwing you around to squeeze you for cash.

Surely DRM here, and allowing closed firmware, and such, are anti-Capitalist? Don't they prevent the market from optimising?

Re: HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

#212

Post by pbhjpbhj »

Freak_NL wrote: post #199
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about your sister, thought?

Yes; a lame pun, but my first thought reading that was 'Well yeah, I like my brother too, but what does that have to with — oh right'. The printer manufacturer is 'Brother', your brother is just 'brother', except if he's also part of a fraternal order.

So, you could have liked your brother Brother Brother's brother Brother, brother?

But what about the buffalo?

Re: HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

#213

Post by zinekeller »

idontwantthis wrote: post #184
ph4te wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree on the Brother printers, I’ve only had two Brothers in the past 13 years, and the only reason I upgraded was to go from Black and White Laser, to Color Laser, it was still going strong. The best part about it was you would buy a toner cartridge and when it would tell you it’s getting low, put some electrical tape over the clear hole in the side and it would continue to print for another 1.5k. On top of that I…

> the best part Is that you can easily circumevent the way this particular brand tries to cheat you.

It's less of cheating and more of toner is not heavy enough to maintain the desired darkness (it's a passive toner system, the toner uses its own weight to print). It's honestly wasteful but unfortunately active toner systems costs more and is much heavier than the already-heavy passive toner systems.

Re: HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

#214

Post by AuthorizedCust »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #211
AuthorizedCust wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Amazon price is high because you’re buying a discontinued product from a niche seller.

Or in other words, the price is high because there is consumer demand for printers that work, without advertising, without drm, without screwing you around to squeeze you for cash. Surely DRM here, and allowing closed firmware, and such, are anti-Capitalist? Don't they prevent the market from optimising?

Unlikely. I see this frequently, where niche vendors charge a lot for discontinued products.

Re: HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

#215

Post by pbhjpbhj »

AstixAndBelix wrote: post #208
freakynit wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this open up the space for a "framework laptop" like company to open up? For "open" printers? If yes, what other product categories is this applicable?

Absolutely not because printer patents will kill you. There are a handful of companies that hold all the patents necessary to build a printer. If you try to build one from scratch "taking inspiration" from consumer ones you will be sued into oblivion

Patent terms for printers would be at most 20 years. Perfectly good laser printers existed >20 years ago. You can tear down an old printer and make a clone of all functional and non-artistic aspects without infringing IP. In theory, patent specifications should provide a manual to help make any once-patented aspects of the device.

Indeed, that's the goal, in part, of the patent system to make technologies available in return for a time-limited monopoly.

Re: HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

#216

Post by manyxcxi »

ph4te wrote: post #62
lchengify wrote: post #23

For those of you who haven't already, I highly recommend just biting the bullet and switching from HP to Brother for your home printing needs. I was a HP customer for decades . I had models going back to perforated paper dot-matrix printers. Finally last year I had a down-and-out fight to get my HP to do a basic task, and I bit the bullet and ordered a Brother at the recommendation of my friend. My mfc-l3750cdw Broth…

I agree on the Brother printers, I’ve only had two Brothers in the past 13 years, and the only reason I upgraded was to go from Black and White Laser, to Color Laser, it was still going strong. The best part about it was you would buy a toner cartridge and when it would tell you it’s getting low, put some electrical tape over the clear hole in the side and it would continue to print for another 1.5k. On top of that I…

I have a 15 year old Brother black and white laser all-in-one and a 6 year old black and white laser with Wi-Fi still on the starter toner in my office.

They work on Linux, Mac, and Windows. I can print to the Wi-Fi one from my iPhone.

In over 20 combined years I’ve never had a paper jam, magically been out of toner, or found myself in a pinch. The new(er) one has a very low power deep sleep so I don’t even have to fully turn it off.

I’ll probably never buy another printer, but as long as Brother doesn’t turn heel, my next printer will 100% be from them.

Re: HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

#217

Post by passwordoops »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #206
passwordoops wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had an experience in another industry similar to what printers are doing. We used to use standard, easy-to-source-from-3rd-party 6-port valves on one of our instruments. Customers loved it, since the valve would need servicing now and then with replacement parts but the company president only saw lost recurring service and support revenue. To complement that perception, the VP Engineering decided "our systems shoul…

So many people willing working jobs that explicitly make the world a worse place to live and we wonder why everything is going to shit.

For the record I disagreed with the decision, and eventually left them shortly after (not just over this) but you're putting a very unfair statement out there. First, it's basically every company that's doing this, and it's the logical next step when growth is the target. Even at the time, they used Apple as an example to be emulated with their anti-consumer practices.

Which feeds the next point: the problem ultimately is shaping laws to protect business models rather than consumer rights. The only reason lawyers were able to threaten that client to remain silent was because the law in his jurisdiction was on my companies' side.

As an employee, when a big decision maker makes such a decision, uses the beacon of tech as an example, and has the law on his side, what do you do? Majority of people can't just up and quit. And even if they do, odds are extraordinarily high that the next job will present the same enshittification.

So no, I disagree that is the "willing employees" causing everything to go to shit but the corporate and governing leadership that have worked together to enshrine the protection of predatory business models over consumer rights, which itself is rooted in the Greed is Good dogma that's ruled since 1980

Re: HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

#218

Post by CPLX »

autoexec wrote: post #139
1123581321 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve seen these kinds of decisions being made. They believe they’re worth it, their product is good enough to have a premium total ownership cost. They believe businesses want OEM. They believe they’re preventing consumers from making expensive mistakes. They believe they need to shut out low cost market entrants that begin with a supplemental product. By believe I mean that’s what their gut tells them, and their dat…

Do you think they really believe those things or are those just the things they say to convince themselves and each other that what they are doing is fine while deep down they know that it's wrong and that they're acting out of greed and are making the world worse. > Advocating for consumer welfare or improving the industry reputation falls completely flat. They don’t believe it’s what the market wants. Or they just…

On one hand you have this abstract concept of a diffuse group of people getting a tiny bit worse off, and you’re not totally even sure who they are or if they care that much or notice.

On the other hand you have granite countertops, more security for your children’s future, a vacation, increases to your own social status, and higher quality food.

It’s pretty easy to see which option we are wired to choose, and which one takes a higher level of personal integrity and effort.

Re: HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

#219

Post by drstewart »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #207
esperent wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just once, I would like to see an AMA by someone who was directly involved in creating a user-hostile feature We don't need an AMA, we already know the answer. Money. The company exists to make money. The fact that it also creates printers is a side effect, not its primary purpose. Once you look at it in this way, there's nothing confusing about user hostile features. They exist to further the primary purpose of th…

> The company exists to make money. The fact that it also creates printers is a side effect, not its primary purpose. And what is astounding is that we, as a society, have accepted this backwards rationale. The only reason we should allow companies to exist is to serve the societal interests, and making the money should be the side effect.

So are you going to be the one that's going to open and run a printer company at a loss for the "societal good", or are you just expecting others to take on that burden?

Re: HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

#220

Post by pugworthy »

readingnews wrote: post #15
rwaksmunski wrote: post #8

17 mentions of Ecotank on the 1st page of comments is a little bit sus. That said it's hard to beat older pre chip Brother laser printers for home use. Can often find a used one for around $50.

I am amazed no one talks about older HPs. I had a 4 with like 5million pages put through it, worked great. I am on a 4300DN now, in my house, got it used. Great printer. I would never buy any of their new stuff. My gosh, HP what happened? You used to make great test equipment. Then great calculators. Then great printers. Now, what? What do you do? Oh, I forgot, you give the customer a printer and hold them hostage. I…

They seem to flail with consumers but there are still some very cool things from HP. For example, the digital dispensers for life sciences.

https://www.hp.com/us-en/specialty-printing-solutions/life-s...

Post reply on HN