Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 296 posts

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#211

Post by dartharva »

raincom wrote: post #205
random314 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buddhism is very distinct from Hinduism. In particular, there aren't multiple deities to worship and there is no caste system. Buddhism, the dominant religion of India circa 400AD (as per Chinese travellers), was already under attack from Brahmins who made it a key strategy to get royal patronage, set up the religious rules for society which heavily favored themselves and also focused on acting as confidantes to king…

Nah, the so-called 'isms' of India ('Buddhism', 'Jainism', 'Saivism') are called agama traditions. The question scholars face or faced is this: what was earlier? Indologist story that both left wing and right scholars accept is that: there was Vedism, corrupted to become 'popular' hinduism, later Indian Martin Luther (Buddha) fought against the veil immorality of Hindus (because caste system forces immoral obligation…

Well explained. Came here to say this.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#212

Post by random314 »

delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #195
u801e wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The India-Pakistan debacle today is an extension of a nearly millennium-long Hindu-Muslim feud. Not really. A lot of these arbitrary borders in modern times came about due to actions of former colonial powers. Prior to colonial times, there were many individual kingdoms/territories throughout the subcontinent. Other examples of arbitrary borders include the Durand line, and the Wakhan corridor.

I'm not just talking about border disputes, and I don't make this connection lightly. Pakistan was explicitly founded as a country for 'Indian Muslims'. The 1971 war wasn't over a border dispute: West Pakistanis openly genocided and raped[1] Bengali Hindus (and Muslims, for that matter), declaring Bengali women 'war booty', which forced India to step in. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_genocide As for '…

> If this is your sort of goalpost, then even relatively homogenous countries like Germany and Italy shouldn't really exist today, given that they only coalesced in the late 19th century.

The strength of modern state propaganda is such that people have developed all kinds of crazy notions about history. The nation state is a modern invention and this involves myth building about the country going back to ancient times.

The French spoken in southern France had much more in common with northern Italian. Its just common sense that it would be so. Modern French was forced down it's subjects just like Urdu in Pakistan, Standardized Mandarin in China and ongoing attempts for Hindu in India.

The state has been elevated to the status of a mythical quasi religious entity.

https://youtu.be/hdUbIlwHRkY

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#213

Post by kamaal »

bnralt wrote: post #121
teleforce wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying that proper university did not exist before 11th century is disingenuous at its best and propaganda at its worst. It's like saying there is no proper engineering existed before civil engineering (civilian engineering) while military engineering has existed since time immomerial. There were numerous institutions of higher learning or universities in Muslim Spain, Middle East and Italian Sicily that the latter w…

I don't think anyone disputes that there were religious centers of learning that occurred earlier. But in cases where these institutions are Christian, people seem fine saying that they were monasteries and not universities. Monastic intellectual tradition is well known. But with many non-Christian intellectual religious centers, people seem intent on using the term "university." Using different standards for Christi…

>>If Nalanda counts as a university, then Europe certainly had universities older than Bologna.

Yup, a lot of things have existed earlier than we perceive. I do think 0 was invented by cave dwellers when they plucked 2 fruits from a tree, eat those 2 fruits over a day and counted the next day how many fruits were remaining(When they felt hungry and if they had to pluck more fruits)

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#214

Post by fcatalan »

readthenotes1 wrote: post #46

I went to the university in Salamanca Spain, founded 1218. There were a lot of old buildings, but nowhere was there a Salamanca U t-shirt as a souvenir (and FYI, the Rome University sweatshirts aren't official--the biz school sells some polos, but that's it).

Uh I don´t know what this has to do with the rest of the discussion but... The University sells some official swag through their "Mercatus" store, including clothing, and in fact in recent years had a lot of it related to the 800th aniversary.

But it also tolerates every souvenir shop in the town selling shirts and hoodies showing the university seal, which I guess makes them kind of "semi-official". Many students wear them.

Anyone curious can enter "Rua Mayor, Salamanca" in Street View and look at the front of every other shop in that street...

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#216

Post by rramadass »

teleforce wrote: post #175
rramadass wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only India, but Persia, countries in The Levant, North Africa and Mediterranean were highly developed before the advent of Islam (which originated amongst desert tribes). It is their knowledge which gave rise to the so called "Golden Age of Islam". Islamic conquest merely acted as a conduit for the spread of these ideas from one geographical region to another (a la the later Mongol Empire).

It is not merely act as a conduit. Using your anology they act as amplifier, filter, signal processing, etc toward the knowledge contributions. These regions becoming even more prosperous due to these knowledge based activities after Islamic rules unlike India who becoming much poorer after the British colonization.

Your first part is debatable.

The analogy i see is Arabs->later advancements(7th century and later) is the same as Mongols->later advancements(13th century and later). Both Arabs and Mongols were not inherently as "advanced" a civilization as the ones they conquered.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#217

Post by rramadass »

kamaal wrote: post #197
rramadass wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only India, but Persia, countries in The Levant, North Africa and Mediterranean were highly developed before the advent of Islam (which originated amongst desert tribes). It is their knowledge which gave rise to the so called "Golden Age of Islam". Islamic conquest merely acted as a conduit for the spread of these ideas from one geographical region to another (a la the later Mongol Empire).

Basically nobody invents anything from scratch. It would be a pity if we have to rediscover everything all over again, every time there is a major change in a regions political order. The modern USA is today a continuation of the Europe's printing press revolution.

The point was that the achievements of civilizations predating Islam have been given short shrift.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#218

Post by rramadass »

random314 wrote: post #201
selimthegrim wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Central Asia certainly played its role too. I invite you to consider that when Jai Singh II built Jantar Mantar, he used "Islamic" sources (Zij) as well from there.

It is fairly standard in Indian right wing media to be dismissive of anything positive of Islamic origin, by constructing a short alternative history as per the writers imagination. So any post Islamic Arab contributions to math would have to be stolen from India, using bloodshed - as if math is a treasure that can be lifted or looted or were existing amongst Arabs before Islam.

Nobody is talking about "right wing media" etc other than you.

What is being pointed out is the achievements of civilizations predating Islam in those countries which are today Islamic.

It is simple factual History.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#219

Post by AdamN »

rramadass wrote: post #217
kamaal wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically nobody invents anything from scratch. It would be a pity if we have to rediscover everything all over again, every time there is a major change in a regions political order. The modern USA is today a continuation of the Europe's printing press revolution.

The point was that the achievements of civilizations predating Islam have been given short shrift.

I can't think of anybody giving short shrift to the achievements of civilizations predating Islam: Rome, Ancient Greece, Ancient China, Mesopotamia, Egypt, and many more civilizations are all commonly referred to as having made major achievements.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#220

Post by AdamN »

guenthert wrote: post #149
bnralt wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a scene in My Big Fat Greek Wedding where the father says that the etymology of all English words can be traced back to Greek[1]. When someone challenges him with the word "Kimono," he pauses for a second, and then concocts a semi-plausible sounding explanation about how the word evolved from a Greek word. A comedy, but I think it does reflect how a lot of people can be so impressed by their own culture that…

> For example, I was surprised to find that a common myth among Germans was that the USA almost had German become its official language, and German only lost out by a single vote. That myth does exist, but I do not think that it is a belief commonly held by Germans (i.e. people living in Germany, not referring to those US citizens tracing their heritage to the Fatherland here). I heard about it only long after crossi…

Funny I heard the same thing about the US but it was French that lost by one vote.
Post reply on HN