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Ohio train derailment: environmental disaster quietly unfolding

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Re: Ohio train derailment: environmental disaster quietly unfolding

#211
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Have there been hundreds of stories about this? Chinese balloons are novel. This is not. It’s tragic. But its most memorable element seems to be the meta-debate around its coverage. That's boring.

I think it's simpler? With the balloons you have someone to point to and pin the blame who is not you. With derailments and the recent acrimonious railworker labor agreement still in the rearview, the blame can't be cast far away; so the play is to ignore it and hope it fades.

> the blame can't be cast far away

From whom? The implicit assumption in this is that the powers that ended the railroad strike are perfectly aligned with the media. Or that bipartisan Congressional idiocy doesn’t get called out in the press. There are loads of powerful people who would benefit if this became a story. They’re not because it’s a bad story for national interest. Nobody died. It’s getting cleaned up. It happened in Ohio.

Re: Ohio train derailment: environmental disaster quietly unfolding

#212
post #136
post #20

Frankly getting tired of hearing about how I haven't heard about it, and nobody wants me to hear about it. If you want to write about news, write about it. If you want to point out instances of news media not covering this story where they might have covered other stories go for it, cite instances. All I've been convinced of so far is some people have an axe to grind, and part of their narrative is how the media or t…

Tinfoil hat spin: the “no one is talking about it” angle is being propagated by foreign psy-ops as a distraction from the balloon stories. The “look, we found balloons too” angle floated like a lead aerostat. The general population pays closer attention to the derailment story because a cover-up is intimated by a “grassroots” perspective, and the balloon story floats away into thin air.

I say this earnestly: I trust that the military has interest in making sure our national security is protected. I don't harbor suspicions of intentional negligence with these balloons.

I totally believe that our civilian federal government and executive agencies have no capacity to deal with massive environmental crises like the one in Ohio, or Flint, or in CA with PG&E or many other places. Our system is too weak, and the companies too powerful, the problems too costly to be dealt with without significant pushback.

Re: Ohio train derailment: environmental disaster quietly unfolding

#213
post #5

I've heard about this, but it is surprising how little coverage it gets compared to other things. If you were to tally up how much airtime each news story gets, plotted against the general tone of the coverage, you'd probably come up with something resembling the news room agenda (you'd also have to weigh it against other stories developing at around the same time). I have to wonder why a story of environmental disas…

> If you were to tally up how much airtime each news story gets, plotted against the general tone of the coverage, you'd probably come up with something resembling the news room agenda It's not like it's subtle. There have been hundreds of Chinese weather balloon stories in the past week. Have there been hundreds of stories about this? US companies make money from stories about Chinese weather balloons. They lose mon…

WA state passed a law that says a cop cannot chase a suspect unless they committed a violent crime. This resulted in a surge of crimes where the suspect driver just flips off the police and drive off. Common crimes resulting from this:

1. catalytic converter thefts

2. thieves steal a car, ram it into a store, loot the store, drive off in another stolen car

Re: Ohio train derailment: environmental disaster quietly unfolding

#214

I explained to my sister that this was "Bhopal[1]" level bad and she didn't believe me because "If it was that bad the news would be covering it." Sigh. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster

To the question: "How could it be that bad?"

Here is my reasoning:

Poly Vinyl Chloride is exceptionally toxic, the plume from this event is east of New Palestine into Pennsylvania based on radar data from both news stations and the National weather service.

Health effects of exposure are dramatic at high levels (death), and delayed at low levels (cancers) (so there is both initial health impact and "long tail" impact).

Between East Palestine and Enor Valley are a bunch of farms.

That suggests to me a number of ways for the PVC to impact the people in that area. Presumably the EPA will establish some monitoring but I haven't been able to find anything from the EPA yet that discusses that.

And FWIW I hope I'm incorrect and we don't see a serious public health crisis associated with this event.

Re: Ohio train derailment: environmental disaster quietly unfolding

#215
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I’m sitting here, in the West Coast sun, laughing about this. " Myself, I'll try not to laugh when millions of people stupid enough to live on the San Andreas fault line relocate into the ocean overnight. Out of a misplaced sense of unrequited empathy.

Rural Ohio is my home, and I will one day come back if I have the money to make meaningful change amongst its downtrodden & underprivileged, or if they’ve managed to sort things for the better themselves. I’m currently living the life of an absolute pauper on the West Coast - I could have magnitudes of a much nicer living back home But, You can’t reason with unreasonable people, which is what the majority of rural Oh…

The federal conditions that bring about the rail lines as they are today have more voting influence from California than they do from Ohio.

Re: Ohio train derailment: environmental disaster quietly unfolding

#216
post #134

This is going to sound exceptionally crass… But as somebody who’s from the outright poorest part of Ohio, with generations of coal workers in the family… I’m sitting here, in the West Coast sun, laughing about this. I’ve also spent significant amounts of time in the general region of this disaster It’s awful. The situation is absolutely awful, that town & everything in a radius around it is genuinely fucked, and from…

Are you serious? “They got what was coming to them” — wow…

You’re living in what sounds like it’s one of the highest cost of living regions in the world laughing at the misfortune of innocent people who don’t have the option to just pickup and move.

If you’ve lived in this area, you would know how “stuck” most people are. The cost of living and wages don’t provide most people the option to do a whole lot more than make a living. Even if they can leave, they have families/friends/communities.

This is also not too far from where individuals have been fighting very hard for worker’s rights for a long time. The UAW against the auto factories. A generation of coal miners who migrated from KY and WV.

You claim you’re from one of the poorest areas in Ohio but are laughing from the West Coast. I signed in just to respond to you because this is one of the most sociopathic things I’ve heard. Have some sympathy.

Re: Ohio train derailment: environmental disaster quietly unfolding

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fox has reports on it from a few days ago too: https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/ohio-mayor-norfolk-sou... It's more likely that nobody really cared about this until it went viral on Twitter and TikTok, when people felt a social obligation to show support. It's not bad to recognize the issue, but our willingness to shoot the messenger has prevented us from being able to learn anything in the first place. How many…

Thanks for the reply! May I ask why "you don't care", though?

My take is that the world is a massive place with countless atrocities and bad things happening. It is impossible for a single human to actually "care" for all these issues besides sweet nothings "thoughts and prayers" and maybe a donation of a 100$.

Instead, I orient myself to my local circle, strata, whatever you want to call it to something I can care for and manage. I recently funded a few tickets for my local highschool for a science trip for instance. I give money to a local shelter I like to stop by and say hey to. I do a lot of things for a circle I've deemed mine to care about.

So it sounds mean or rude not to care, but it's what everyone is doing. No one just wants to admit it. Champion a few causes that you can handle and let your taxes take care of what you can't.

Re: Ohio train derailment: environmental disaster quietly unfolding

#218

April 2022 a locomotive engineer wrote an open letter to the STB about the dangers of Precision Scheduled Railroad trains that are so long radio communication doesn’t even reach both ends. A lot of armchair experts on here wrote him off when it was posted to hn. I worked with a former locomotive engineer at the time who echoed the concerns reported here. He left the industry after about 10 years because of the grueli…

These trains are over 3 miles long. This is to amortise the overhead of staffing? The locomotives and their cost scale linearly with the train, but the engineers do not?

Re: Ohio train derailment: environmental disaster quietly unfolding

#219
post #134

This is going to sound exceptionally crass… But as somebody who’s from the outright poorest part of Ohio, with generations of coal workers in the family… I’m sitting here, in the West Coast sun, laughing about this. I’ve also spent significant amounts of time in the general region of this disaster It’s awful. The situation is absolutely awful, that town & everything in a radius around it is genuinely fucked, and from…

I'm also from Appalachia. But just across the river in WV.

>from what I’ve heard but not completely personally confirmed, it’s already contaminating downstream into the Ohio river.

As someone who grew up in the town both The Devil We Know (Documentary on Netflix) and Dark Waters (loosely based on real events) are about - and the bizarre fillings to prove it - when it was happening to the people living there, this is sadly normal.

>But. I don’t know what to say. Other than… these people have been voting against their best interests. Their entire damn lives.

This is such a patronizing thing to say. Especially given this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34635291

>How can you possibly have any wake-up call for a populace so deep into hatred & corporate bootlicking.

The other side would accuse their opponents of...exactly the same things. The boots are just Big Tech flavored. And the hatred is based on ignorance, as it usually is.

>They got what was coming to them. I don’t know how many this catastrophe will wake up to the fact they’ve been swindled all this time, that the political party they’ve sworn their lives to have already sold their souls for pennies on the dollar, so long ago.

Which political party is that? The recent strikebreaking was led by Biden, which would make the party you're talking about the Democrats:

>So on Friday morning, after three years of failed negotiations, President Biden instead signed into law a measure that imposes the contract agreement brokered by his administration back in September

https://www.npr.org/2022/12/02/1140265413/rail-workers-biden...

>But, again. I do not know what to say. For decades, so many of these people have voted for those that pass laws to make corporations not even slightly accountable & strike down reforms aiming to regulate these industries - regulate so that they’re forced to take up safety measures so shit like this cannot happen

Again, the recent strikebreaking wasn't the party you're obviously implying.

>The damage is done, and they will die before they ever see a better community - politicians that care for their well being.

Outside of Bernie, and maybe the Pauls, I'm not sure those exist.

>They got what was coming to them. I don’t know how many this catastrophe will wake up to the fact they’ve been swindled all this time, that the political party they’ve sworn their lives to have already sold their souls for pennies on the dollar, so long ago.

And you accuse them of hatred? You should re-read what you've written when you've sobered up, methinks.

>Appalachia is such an unfortunate place - so beautiful, but abandoned by modern first world society. (okay, northern ohio is technically slightly out of Appalachia proper - GOMD)

Appalachia goes all the way up into NY state, homie. Much of Ohio along the eponymous river is just Appalachia with a big river in it. And the mountains are older than Saturn's rings(!).

>that the politicians they’ve been voting for as long as they’ve been able have sold out their entire livelihoods for the most meager amounts of $USD

So we've correctly identified the problem as politicians that don't serve their constituents interests. What do we do about it? I suggest uncapping the number of members of the House. Let's see a country where people actually know their Congrescritter. Like it was supposed to be.

Re: Ohio train derailment: environmental disaster quietly unfolding

#220
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue this is getting covered exactly the amount it should. Because everyone seems to know about it, and no one who thinks it should be covered more seems to have anything to add to it.

i personally want whoopi goldberg to go over the shipping manifest https://epaosc.org/sites/15933/files/TRAIN%2032N%20-%20EAST%... > during her day time show, and eli5 to her listeners what those various substances are, what their short and long term effect on the environment are, and specifically the effects on the various ohio river tributaries where EPA has already detected some of the contaminants. i know that's…

She should also mention the names of top executives at the company, the names of relevant officials, and how to contact all of them.
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