Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs • Hacker News Board

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#211

Post by overrun11 » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 5:57 PM UTC

gwright wrote: post #156

pembrook wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The managerial class looting public companies for outsized compensation while taking near-zero risk, is a huge problem in the modern economy. Being a steward of an already-giant company...one that has product-market fit, reliable sales/distribution channels, household brand awareness, and a position of gravity in the markets...is infinitely easier than building something from scratch. Nobody who was employee #1567 sh…

> The managerial class looting public companies for outsized compensation while taking near-zero risk, is a huge problem in the modern economy. Has it ever not been a problem? In any type of economy? In any type of company? Seems like this a human nature problem and not a "modern economy" problem.

I think it is a fairly new thing yes. I could be wrong but the distinction between owner and manager seems like a fairly recent development. The people in charge have always reaped the bulk of the profits but also bore most of the risk. Now we have "managers" who take no more risk than an employee but receive excess rewards.

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#212

Post by twawaaay » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 5:57 PM UTC

Accountable to whom?

For everything within the law, CEOs are only accountable to company owners. That's it.

CEOs are only managing the company for somebody else -- the owners of the company. That's it. That's all they do.

When the owners don't like the CEO they just get a new one, until they find a person that will do their bidding (or at least increase their share value). Trying to change the mind of a CEO makes no sense unless you find a way to convince owners this is in their best interest.

The problem is not CEOs. The problem is shareholders / owners. The problem is people who don't care about other people. And the legislation that allows to exploit employees, chew them out when they are no longer needed while at the same time paying no taxes, not chipping in to improve general wellbeing of the population they earn so much money from.

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#213

Post by gabereiser » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 5:59 PM UTC

manuelabeledo wrote: post #81

gabereiser wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are trends of company health, not performance metrics of the CEO. The performance metrics of the CEO is "In discovery of this down trend, what can we do to reorg the business and trim the fat so that we can turn this down trend upwards? (put together plan) (fires those that don't fit within that plan)". This is a good CEO. Maybe hated by those he/she fired, but loved by those who depend on the company to succee…

You hired ten people to work on soil you knew nothing about. Maybe you shouldn't be doing gardening at all.

Companies often build solutions to problems they know nothing about. Often they learn as they go. All research and market analysis points to this being the perfect place for a garden home so that's what we set off to create. But that was a few years ago when we did that market analysis and now the soil is clay. Ill suited for a garden without a lot of work and money to maintain it. It's time to change the direction of the home. You are right, maybe we shouldn't be doing gardening at all. Thank you for gardening with me (or attempting to). Your services are no longer needed here.

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#214

Post by Ekaros » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 6:00 PM UTC

sharemywin wrote: post #142

colinmorelli wrote: post #86

Regardless of individual opinions on whether CEOs should be terminated for layoffs or not - there's a surprising amount of comments here that seem to not understand that growing companies don't hire for today, but for where they want to be tomorrow. Where you want to be tomorrow is based on where you and your investors believe the world is going. If the world materially changes enough to shift your expectations about…

I just hate the CEO's saying "I take full responsibility for what happened" I call bullshit. If you did you'd quit in shame.

And return the money you earned to be spend for good of the company...

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#215

Post by cudgy » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 6:01 PM UTC

robocat wrote: post #204

jackmott42 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a very odd discussion to have since, even when running a company well, no public company should be compensating its CEO to the tune of even 1 million a year. It is absolutely a ruling class leeching off society that this happens. It doesn't happen everywhere or even in america in the past, big companies can be run without this behavior. It isn't supply and demand, it is cronyism. Should a CEO be allowed to get…

Your argument is nonsense unless you can explain why you pick your cutoff point at $200 million. Plenty of people in the USA would argue that $200k is a bad number: those overpaid software developers with their share incentives need to be stopped /s. Shareholders should revolt against those rich software developers? > It is absolutely a ruling class leeching off society that this happens I mean, the same argument can…

> Shareholders should revolt against those rich software developers?

Of course they should. Hiring a few, strategic, expert developers at those rates might make sense. However, paying 200k+ for a newly graduated student with no experience should have been questioned firmly.

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#216

Post by WalterBright » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 6:02 PM UTC

jackmott42 wrote: post #172

colinmorelli wrote: post #86

Regardless of individual opinions on whether CEOs should be terminated for layoffs or not - there's a surprising amount of comments here that seem to not understand that growing companies don't hire for today, but for where they want to be tomorrow. Where you want to be tomorrow is based on where you and your investors believe the world is going. If the world materially changes enough to shift your expectations about…

It is a very odd discussion to have since, even when running a company well, no public company should be compensating its CEO to the tune of even 1 million a year. It is absolutely a ruling class leeching off society that this happens. It doesn't happen everywhere or even in america in the past, big companies can be run without this behavior. It isn't supply and demand, it is cronyism. Should a CEO be allowed to get…

And yet Steve Jobs transformed Apple from 90 days to bankruptcy to the biggest company in the world. Was he worth $200 million in compensation? Hell yeah. Because he is responsible for that wealth creation.

This kind of turnaround also happened at Barnes & Noble, all due to one man - the CEO, James Daunt.

https://tedgioia.substack.com/p/what-can-we-learn-from-barne...

CEOs get paid a lot because they are crucial to the success (or failure) of a company. Yes, they did build it.

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#217

Post by HDThoreaun » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 6:03 PM UTC

manuelabeledo wrote: post #35

mabbo wrote: post #20

The goal of the CEO of a publicly traded company is to make the shareholders money. As much money as possible. If laying people off is the best way to do that, they'll do it. Blaming the CEO for doing the job they were hired to do seems short-sighted. Blame the broken system that incentivizes this, that makes doing it profitable. And then, let's change the system.

If their job is to make money for the shareholders, and quarterly reports show that they are either making less money, or incurring in losses, then they aren't doing their job. They laid off people who had little to zero influence in defining the company mission, trying to cut spending. This suggests that the C-suite over-spent. > Blaming the CEO for doing the job they were hired to do seems short-sighted. Blame the…

CEOs aren't mind readers. They have to make informed decisions about risks their company faces and act to neutralize those risks. If there was a 1% chance amazon would somehow be replaced by a startup if they don't spend 100 million dollars should they do it? I think the answer is obviously yes. Spending that money is not wasteful, it ensured the continued success of the company, even if the 99% outcome came to pass. The job of the CEO isn't to decide the probabilities here, it's to react to them.

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#218

Post by Bud » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 6:03 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #128

automatic6131 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>when COVID hit and tech companies saw large surges because investors and CEOs saw industries leaping 5-10 years into the future overnight, they hired to support that growth Yes, they all egregiously failed. A massive, widespread, collective failure for which they should lose their jobs, as many other people do. On the face of it, it was obvious, that's not even hindsight bias - it was the topsy turvy world that bad…

> On the face of it, it was obvious If it was obvious, then the market would have priced it in. But it didn't. So the crowdsourced collective wisdom was indeed that industries were leaping 5-10 years into the future overnight. That was the thing that was "obvious" to most people. You may have disagreed at the time, and if you'd shorted stocks you could have made some money. But the idea that "on the face of it, it wa…

Apple figured it out. Again. They didn't over-hire, and they still haven't done a major layoff since 1997.

So, maybe it was not obvious, but there are some people who were able to figure it out, apparently.

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#219

Post by Ekaros » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 6:03 PM UTC

oifjsidjf wrote: post #4

[flagged]

And there should be some sort of three strike rules for those that publish their reporting. 3 provably wrong reportings should be enough. Or maybe lead to automatic full disclosure of all communication up to that point and if found that they knew it was false the publishing company is permanently terminated.

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#220

Post by superfrank » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 6:04 PM UTC

automatic6131 wrote: post #102

colinmorelli wrote: post #86

Regardless of individual opinions on whether CEOs should be terminated for layoffs or not - there's a surprising amount of comments here that seem to not understand that growing companies don't hire for today, but for where they want to be tomorrow. Where you want to be tomorrow is based on where you and your investors believe the world is going. If the world materially changes enough to shift your expectations about…

>when COVID hit and tech companies saw large surges because investors and CEOs saw industries leaping 5-10 years into the future overnight, they hired to support that growth Yes, they all egregiously failed. A massive, widespread, collective failure for which they should lose their jobs, as many other people do. On the face of it, it was obvious, that's not even hindsight bias - it was the topsy turvy world that bad…

I think the fact that so many CEOs got it wrong is actually an argument for why the shouldn't be fired.

If one or two CEOs got it wrong, you could argue that they were incompetent, ignorant, or greedy and they should have been better informed because plenty of other CEOs were. Everyone getting something wrong says to me that the failure wasn't down to individual mistakes and there was something larger at play.