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Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

support.stripe.com

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Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#211

Post by brianwawok »

dinkblam wrote: post #173
brianwawok wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except you will lose every chargeback. Despite evidence including IP logs and screenshots. Easier to just lifeban every customer that does a chargeback vs spend 10 hours dealing with stripe + bank, and still losing, no matter the reason.

> Except you will lose every chargeback we were winning at least 50% of our chargebacks by providing evidence. > Easier to just lifeban every customer true. funny how an instrument that is supposed to combat fraud (by companies), is now mostly used to commit fraud (by consumers)

What kind of evidence is that, for what kind of chargeback?

I have literal screenshots of a customer saying the opposite of the complaint, and still lost.

Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#212

Post by gamblor956 »

smca wrote: post #163
codegeek wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but doesn't Stripe pass that fee on to the merchant ? If a dispute is lost, the fees are not returned back to the merchant so I assume Stripe uses that to pay the network.

That's not quite right. To simplify things, think of Stripe as an facilitator in the dispute process. Stripe has no influence over the outcome—it's at the sole discretion of the cardholder's bank. Stripe deducts a dispute fee to cover the cost charged to us for dispute submission. In the past, we returned this fee even though the card networks don't reimburse us. This is no longer the case (we now pass through the fe…

So basically, you're saying that your dispute fee costs have increased...but you pass along all those charges to the merchant anyways...so it boils down to: you're just increasing fees because you can under the guise of expenses that aren't your own.

Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#213

Post by lmz »

01acheru wrote: post #188
searchableguy wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India built rupay, an alternative to visa and mastercard which has 0 charge to merchants. It is expanding internationally and works in neighboring countries. Aside from this, most local payments happen over UPI so they cost 0 as well. Visa and mastercard usage is declining in India since a few years despite rapid increase in digital adoption. Government banned master card, diners, express, etc issuance for not comply…

This is exactly what I mean and what I would like to see in the EU. I think the digital Euro is meant to be something similar but it is still vaporware ATM. Thanks for sharing!

Don't you guys have SCT Inst? Finding a tech provider / bank who can wrap that into a nice UX and API is the challenge.

Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#214

Post by dinkblam »

brianwawok wrote: post #211
dinkblam wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except you will lose every chargeback we were winning at least 50% of our chargebacks by providing evidence. > Easier to just lifeban every customer true. funny how an instrument that is supposed to combat fraud (by companies), is now mostly used to commit fraud (by consumers)

What kind of evidence is that, for what kind of chargeback? I have literal screenshots of a customer saying the opposite of the complaint, and still lost.

just screenshots from the server backend showing that the customer has actually used the product he has purchased as well as written confirmation that we never received a request for a refund

> saying the opposite of the complaint, and still lost.

yeah. even if its obvious that the customer made a fraudulent chargeback, you may loose. my only point was that not all chargebacks are lost, it is possible to win a good percentage.

i wish Stripe had an option to auto-block all customers who requested a chargeback from ever purchasing again...

Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#215

Post by withinboredom »

gggggg5 wrote: post #174
sleepyhead wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah that is not even remotely legal in any country with decent consumer protection.

Why not? Could you give an example as to why this would not be legal in some country of your choice?

In the case of card fraud, you don’t have a contract with the actual account owner. So taking that money results in THE COMPANY fraudulently charging a card. Again.

In the case of an actual dispute (non-shipment, etc) you do have an actual contract. However, this smells like extortion(?). You didn’t deliver on your end of the contract (deliver goods) but are penalizing the other side for your failure to deliver. It won’t go over well when you get the class-action suit, and all the little ones in-between.

Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#216

Post by withinboredom »

0xDEF wrote: post #203
miroljub wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of these services is Merchant of Record (that handles taxes). Neither is Stripe. At this day and age, I don't understand why would any small to medium business that sells online internationally use anything else but Merchant of Records. International taxes are just a PITA that it's not worth trading a few percent of payment processor fee for a full-blown team of international tax accountants.

What are some Stripe alternatives that provide Merchant of Record?

Paddle comes to mind.

Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#217

Post by makeitdouble »

amelius wrote: post #83
makeitdouble wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd still need certifications to handle the info, and negociate with each issuer to get access. From memory they have legal obligation to open an API and give access, but no real penalty if it doesn't work or is utterly garbage or impractical.

I think you typically need to have a key only. You could get that key from their admin page, and hand it to the abstraction layer. Seems simple enough? Not sure what you mean by impractical API. If their API is not practical, then nobody would use it, I suppose. If it is barely practical, then an abstraction layer would be a godsent.

Sorry, I misread “abstract away” as skipping the PSP layer and directly talking to the banks

Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#218

Post by [deleted] »

withinboredom wrote: post #215
gggggg5 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? Could you give an example as to why this would not be legal in some country of your choice?

In the case of card fraud, you don’t have a contract with the actual account owner. So taking that money results in THE COMPANY fraudulently charging a card. Again. In the case of an actual dispute (non-shipment, etc) you do have an actual contract. However, this smells like extortion(?). You didn’t deliver on your end of the contract (deliver goods) but are penalizing the other side for your failure to deliver. It w…

[deleted]

Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#219

Post by nudgeee »

cataflam wrote: post #199
superzamp wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with SEPA payment, is that it's great for the merchant and a net loss for the user, especially individual consumers. From a UX perspective today, it will always be more cumbersome to initiate a SEPA transfer to the merchant. Some integrations offer a semblance of interactivity with your banking app in an attempt to streamline it, but nothing beats the simplicity entering your cards details or just showing…

There are multiple types of SEPA payments, I think you're talking about SEPA Credit Transfer (essentially making the bank transfer yourself). On the other hand, for SEPA Direct Debit, not only is the interface quite reasonable (you enter your IBAN and confirm a mandate), but consumer protection is very high. You can chargeback no questions asked for 8 weeks, it will be immediately accepted and the merchant can't do a…

SEPA DD is suited for recurring payments as it relies on a mandate. It doesn’t make sense to set up a mandate for every one off txn, and at which point you’ve authorized the merchant to pull money from your account at anytime. The ball goes back to your court to contest afterwards, as well as keep track of all the mandates you’ve signed.

Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#220

Post by Aeolun »

brianwawok wrote: post #168
Aeolun wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This strikes me as weird. It’s very normal. It’s why a lot of services immediately ban you for life if you ever issue a chargeback (regardless of validity). Stripe was the sole sensible service out there (that I know of) where chargebacks wouldn’t hit a small business as hard as long as they could prove they were in the right. But it seems Stripe is becoming everything it originally railed against.

Except you will lose every chargeback. Despite evidence including IP logs and screenshots. Easier to just lifeban every customer that does a chargeback vs spend 10 hours dealing with stripe + bank, and still losing, no matter the reason.

We were in a fairly wonky business and we won nearly all of them. Maybe due to the fact they were expected and our evidence of every step of the process was solid.

If you are a fly by night op like amazon with inventory commingling I guess you don’t stand a chance.

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