211–220 of 238 posts
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Fodder for discrimination lawsuits. The more information they have like this, the more they have to work with when defending a suit. School-based discrimination has been deemed legally acceptable, thus "Our records indicate the plaintiff did not meet our high school expectations. She was not hired for that reason."
> "School-based discrimination has been deemed legally acceptable" Can you give me a link to the decision?
The best way to see if someone will perform well at a job, is to have them do that job and see. The second best way is to ask them for proof they succeeded at a similar job. That proof is usually a combination of references and a discussion about work they did at the previous job. If you can't do any of those things, like for some recent grads, then the next best predictors of job performance are going to be psychome…
> "specifically IQ and trait conscientiousness. Colleges heavily select for these traits during admissions" Out of curiousity, can you cite these claims? I mean I buy the conscientiousness, but I wouldn't guess they heavily select for it or IQ. Or at least not both together, not past a point.
There are many studies on the correlations here, and you should do your own survey of the literature if you are curious, not trust a cherry picked study posted by some guy on HN.
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I think you're conflating "how should one answer the questions on a form" with "how should the form be written"?
They're inherently related. The medium dictates the context of both the questions and responses. Trying to communicate things on a form that are not accurately communicated on a form is a fools errand. Interviews, code tests, etc exist to communicate things that aren't well communicated in that format.
I'm 50. High School was a long time ago. I love Ubuntu, and I love Java (they were looking for people for Enterprise Java tooling), but the inane high school questions were, for me, a strong indicator that "oldies need not apply." Mr Shuttleworth has said - here - that he's confident this set of questions is picking the right people, so I'm taking him at his word and not wasting my time or theirs.
A recruiter reached out to me and wanted me to take what I can only but describe as the equivalent of Phrenology and personality quiz through a coding quiz. I reached out to the recruiter and informed him that such things are likely illegal in the US and on top of that, I'd stated on my resume that I do not participate in Leetcode, etc.
What shocked me was the response: "Thank you for your withdrawal of interest in working at Canonical."
I've been a sometimes-active member of the Ubuntu community, contributing to various parts of their wiki until that became less usable, as well as providing help on their IRC channels, occasionally stepping in to help a package maintainer here and there, etc. For the position that they were hiring for (developer relations advocate), you'd think I'm the kind of person they beg for, but it really shows that they wouldn't hire the people who volunteer their time.
Definitely put 4.0 GPA. If they ask for proof, spend a few bucks on fiverr and get a photoshop wizard to cook you up a transcript.
Santos, is that you? But really, lying on resumes is just dumb. You have more to lose than to gain.
Best case you get a job you want. Worst case you apply to a different job. Seems outsized in the gain department, for all parties (considering how dumb a GPA requirement is on a resume).
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I've sometimes wondered how easy it'd be to lie about where I went to university, even. In my 15 year career I've literally never had anyone ask for any proof of my degree. I did some research just now though and there is in fact a National Student Clearinghouse that background check companies use to verify school info, so maybe it's been happening as part of background checks?
It's actually really easy to verify someone attended/graduated. It's easier than an employment reference since there's usually someone to answer the phones in the Registrars' offices and this is exactly why they exist. What's a bit trickier is verifying the University exists. There are fake colleges where you pay for a bogus degree and subscribe to their bogus registrar service for a period of time so when employers…
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> "specifically IQ and trait conscientiousness. Colleges heavily select for these traits during admissions" Out of curiousity, can you cite these claims? I mean I buy the conscientiousness, but I wouldn't guess they heavily select for it or IQ. Or at least not both together, not past a point.
You can look at the standardized tests (SAT, ACT) and their respective correlations to IQ tests. I'm not claiming that colleges give IQ tests themselves, just that they care a lot about other tests which are highly correlated. There are many studies on the correlations here, and you should do your own survey of the literature if you are curious, not trust a cherry picked study posted by some guy on HN.
I also know that, all else held equal, super-intelligence starts to show a negative correlation with success in college if the super-intelligent individual is curricularly mainstreamed in pre-college school. So the correlation with intelligence, at least, does break down in various cases. I'm sure it does with conscientiousness as well.
Whether this is at the level of admissions? I know that selective schools tend to pass on students who score wildly above their average, because the student is less likely to attend if accepted (and for college rankings purposes this looks bad).
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Good grief, that's definitely the bigger WTF. Each of those engineering questions could be its own essay. What's even left to talk about if you answer all of those?
A Canonical dev in the replies offhandedly mentions that they read every one thoroughly whether its "3 or 30 pages" which is certainly an ask when you have people submitting an autobiographical novella as the first step in your interview process.
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Santos, is that you? But really, lying on resumes is just dumb. You have more to lose than to gain.
> You have more to lose than to gain Best case you get a job you want. Worst case you apply to a different job. Seems outsized in the gain department, for all parties (considering how dumb a GPA requirement is on a resume).
At $job-4 I had the following exchange with HR. HR: Our records are incomplete, please provide a copy of your degree and transcript. Me: I don't have a degree. HR: We only hire people with degrees! Me: Well I have a contract and get paid so... HR: What is the highest education level you've achieved? Me: I finished high school 20 years ago. HR: Great, please provide a copy of your certificate and transcript. I ignored…