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Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

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Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#211

Post by runnerup »

tptacek wrote: post #76
godelski wrote: post #30

One thing I've never understood is the argument for tipping. It has always been "because servers are being paid less than minimum wage." Which the issue with that is that that varies state by state. Most west coast states do not have a separate tipped wage[0]. So the question is, why do we tip at all on the west coast[1]? Worse, it seems to be expanding and increasing in size[2] The followup argument is often "well t…

Tipping is a system in which customers explicitly, optionally, and variably share some of the cost of labor. It has the features of allowing individual patrons to modulate the labor subsidy they provide, based on their current price sensitivity, the value they place on warm fuzzies (don't dismiss this!), the relationship they want to build with the business, and the service they perceive themselves to be getting. You…

> I also should have added, and probably led with, the fact that tipping addresses a big agent-principal problem in hospitality: in restaurants where servers rely on tips, their incentives are strongly aligned with those of customers; without tips, virtually all the incentives are aligned with that of management.

Very astute of you to mention this, though “address” and “cause” could be used interchangeably.

When I was a bartender it was always in my interest to give away free alcohol to my highest tipping customers, who generally understood that it’s customary to add 50% of the cost they would have paid to their tip for each free drink.

At a very surface level, the tipping system incentivizes employees to steal product from the business to give to customers. But the game theory gets very complicated. Sometimes this results in a great customer base that forms the core of a “social engine” that powers the popularity of a bar/restaurant and results in a win-win-win. Bar owners set various levels/thresholds/criteria for how much free sample can be given out and under what circumstances.

Tl;dr: the principal-agent problem can almost never be solved to align all parties in a system.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#213

Post by djur »

zzzeek wrote: post #71

I can't believe these comments, what is wrong with you people? if you are a highly paid technology worker, when you go to service establishments where people are working hourly and are desperate to work 40-50 hour weeks just to pay their rent and feed their kids, you *tip*. *generously*. the US has an insanely out of control income inequality issue that is very intractible and structural. If you are so fortunate as t…

Every day I benefit from the labor of people who make less than most waiters, and I can't tip them. Either they're not physically present to be tipped or company policy prohibits them from accepting tips. I think it's fair to point out the absurdity that it's considered socially necessary to make additional payments to waitstaff and delivery drivers but not to dishwashers and package handlers.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#214

Post by djur »

tptacek wrote: post #81
godelski wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather just increase the minimum wage. Why do this pick and choose thing? If the minimum is not enough then it isn't enough for __everyone__.

Servers in fine dining restaurants make much more than the minimum wage on tips. $25-$30/hr isn't a crazy high amount for a server to be making; $50-60k/yr is also a thing.

A friend of mine told me flat out that although he thinks tip abolition is the right thing to do policywise, he and his waiter friends personally hope it doesn't happen because it would effectively result in a pay cut for them (even though it would probably increase wages for BOH workers, waiters at low-volume restaurants, etc.).

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#215

Post by djur »

delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #104
godelski wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tipping at best is a form of bribery and at worst a feudal practice of wealth transfer. I tip because it is the social norm (and bribery: don't want my food messed with), but I think we can also acknowledge that this practice is weird and has a shaky history.

> don't want my food messed with If someone has the mentality that they are free to spoil your food because they won't get a (good) tip, then they don't deserve to be paid at all , let alone be tipped well. There's a lot of things the US has that are extremely strange, and the tipping culture is amongst them.

You don't bribe someone because you think they deserve a bribe. That's not a bribe, it's a gift.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#216

Post by dang »

jacktribe wrote: post #99

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Al…

You should write a longer piece about your coffee shop! and the process behind it. If you do, you should submit it to HN - and if you do that you should email us (hn@ycombinator.com) because we might put it in the second-chance pool (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308).

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#217

Post by ramphastidae »

jacktribe wrote: post #182
bilsbie wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had a no tipping restaurant we used to go to and the service was reliably terrible. Hopefully the rating system will work but I’d say you do need some kind of system. On the other hand Chick-fil-A is able to make their employees act friendly. I wonder how they do it. Finally I do wish you’d accept cash just for people that want to preserve their privacy.

Cash will tie up an additional employee behind the counter. One of the reasons we are able to not accept tips and pay fair wages instead, is because we don't need a person at the register. And while you can use that person for other tasks when there is no one in line, they do need to glove up each time they may handle a food item. Also, in LA cash is a safety issue if you plan on staying open late when traffic is low…

It seems like promoting a fairer society is a priority for you, given your focus on paying fair wages. That’s great! Please consider extending that desire to serving people who do not have credit cards or bank accounts (or crypto …) Plenty of them exist and like coffee too.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#218

Post by freetime2 »

adam_arthur wrote: post #6

Given that even retail stores have added tipping prompts to their checkouts, I'd say yes. Plus many restaurants with placeholder tip icons that start at 25%+ You also don't know what the tip is really going towards in many cases. In the classic restaurant/waitstaff case you can reasonably expect it to go to the workers, in the random knick knack or general goods stores ??? Tipping in general is a system to transfer w…

> Given that even retail stores have added tipping prompts to their checkouts

Really?! Which retail stores?

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#219

Post by adam_arthur »

freetime2 wrote: post #218
adam_arthur wrote: post #6

Given that even retail stores have added tipping prompts to their checkouts, I'd say yes. Plus many restaurants with placeholder tip icons that start at 25%+ You also don't know what the tip is really going towards in many cases. In the classic restaurant/waitstaff case you can reasonably expect it to go to the workers, in the random knick knack or general goods stores ??? Tipping in general is a system to transfer w…

> Given that even retail stores have added tipping prompts to their checkouts Really?! Which retail stores?

Any store can enable tipping on the POS devices. Many stores that used to not traditionally operate off of tips have added the option.

Big employers don’t do it as far as I know. Have seen it many times in convenience stores or small grocery

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#220

Post by ramphastidae »

notch656c wrote: post #72
bscphil wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I delivered food A "token amount" is pretty reasonable if you take tipping at face value, no? It's supposed to be a reward for good service. Waitstaff engage with you many times over the course of about an hour, and every person at a table receives service. It's fairly reasonable in this case to tip in proportion to the total bill. On the contrary, it's roughly the same amount of work for a delivery driver to…

See my below post. The issue is the delivery driver has to pick up the order from a full service restaurant much of the time. The full service restaurant workers will blackball the delivery driver if he doesn't tip them, and that happens proportionally to the cost of the food. After 2-3 times the delivery driver not tipping the restaraunt at the food he's picking up, he will be waiting forever until his customers can…

I’m having trouble believing this. You’re saying restaurant workers are expecting tips from the delivery drivers coming to their restaurant for pickup? I’ve only ever seen drivers show up, confirm their identity and orders to the restaurant workers via an app, take the food, and leave.
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