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Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

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Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most fentanyl is manufactured in China, most illicit fentanyl is produced in Mexico. (nitpick)

i suspect illicit fentanyl greatly outweighs legitimate at this point

any reason but speculation? If so, please inform the DEA!

https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2020-03/DEA_GOV_DIR-...

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#212

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

My fentanyl experiences have entirely been as part of surgery: it's part of the balanced triad of anaesthesia and I "recently" injured myself quite badly, resulting in three operations. After one of these, I spent about 36 hours on a fentanyl infusion and more than a month on oral morphine of various doses with my leg in an orthopaedic brace while I was bed-bound. I should point out that the alternative was a lot of…

Once you actually don't need it anymore, throw it far away and do not look back. Benzos and opiates ruin lives because of that little voice. That voice will be strong enough one day that if you have those close by you will take a few, because why not?

That voice is the voice of addiction. Once it starts it never fully goes away. It just gets less frequent.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#213
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- The black market is always cheaper. - Even in a legal market how many people are always buying their own? - If everything is legal then it's even easier for people to spike drinks and the like. - Purdue Pharma marketing issue writ large. - Patients pressuring their doctors to prescribe, or alternatively feeling pressured by their doctors to use a particular drug. - If it's legal it's easier to purposefully or accid…

> - The black market is always cheaper. anecdata: I'm in canada, which has legalized marijuana recently. The black market is cheaper, but all but the most die-hard stoners I know like to buy government weed, because the product is consistent and you know what you're getting. > - Even in a legal market how many people are always buying their own? Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but in a legal market even if I don't buy so…

Hell even in states where it's illegal people prefer to drive to a state where it is legal or get it shipped compared to "street weed." This isn't to say that the market has dried up or anything but it's clearly an inferior good in the economic sense. As soon as as an alternative of comparable price entered the market people immediately switched.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#214

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

My fentanyl experiences have entirely been as part of surgery: it's part of the balanced triad of anaesthesia and I "recently" injured myself quite badly, resulting in three operations. After one of these, I spent about 36 hours on a fentanyl infusion and more than a month on oral morphine of various doses with my leg in an orthopaedic brace while I was bed-bound. I should point out that the alternative was a lot of…

My mother spent 6 weeks sedated with Fentanyl, on top of Alzheimer's. After a few days I realized she would survive. But she was in a hellish state for over a year, hallucinating and constructing parallel realities.

Ironically, she worked on the UK medical trial for Fentanyl when it was first introduced for surgery.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, most of the fentanyl that's abused comes from illegal sources. However, like cocaine, methamphetamine and heroin, I put some of the responsibility on the people who created it and promoted its use in the first place. It's naive to think we could make "super heroin" and it would stay restricted to safe, controlled medical environments. I'm not convinced the good it does in certain cases outweighs the enormous har…

> I put some of the responsibility on the people who created it and promoted it's use in the first place. While there was a little bit of questionable marketing around some forms of fentanyl it was mostly around for the ride - the real blockbuster drugs leading to the medical establishment opioid crisis were hydrocodone, oxycodone and tramadol. Making fentanyl a scapegoat is misplaced. The opioid epidemic did not nee…

I'm not making fentanyl a scapegoat, just look at the US drug overdose statistics, especially the huge jump around 2020. Fentanyl is eclipsing every other opioid, synthetic or otherwise. It alone is responsible for what is quickly becoming the deadliest drug epidemic of all time.

There's good reason for my harsh criticism, and I don't think most people truly realize how bad the situation is.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#216

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

Because it is there.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#217

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

I think quite a lot of people ended up addicted to opioids against their will, by starting with being over prescribed highly addictive pain medication which then ended up making them addicted to opioids, and then later on ended up trying to feed that habit from the streets once the easy access to pain meds dried up. https://www.doj.nh.gov/news/2022/20220303-settlement-purdue-... Personally I've been avoiding oxyconti…

You're not wrong, but addiction is not a certain outcome. Most people who use a substance that can lead to addiction don't become addicted. The question is why can two people, for example, abuse alcohol for a period of their youth, but both don't become addicts?

We need to look at this holistically. Overprescribing is a problem, but we shouldn't be needlessly afraid of these substances. Personally I've been prescribed these medications, I took some and when it stopped hurting I stopped taking them and the bottle sat in my medical cabinet in case I injured myself later. Eventually it expired and I threw it away. It wasn't an issue of will power or anything like that. I just didn't feel the compulsion. I'm the same way with alcohol and other drugs. I enjoy it when appropriate, but I feel no compulsion whatsoever. I, in fact, prefer mental clarity.

But I have people in my life who develop very strong compulsions and become addicted to anything that distracts them from their psychological torments. Reducing access helps, but reducing other circumstances in their life that they may feel the need to numb has to be part of the solution.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get that, but that doesn't mean there's no room for powerful painkillers for the situations that call for them. If someone dying from cancer wants to be stoned out of their minds to avoid the pain, I'm all for letting them. You and I don't want that because our current circumstances don't call for it. Someday, they might. If that day comes, I wouldn't want to live in a world without access to strong analgesics.

I think that the palliative care of a cancer patient is slightly different than a broken leg. Only one of these lead to the opioid crises.

I don't know about that. The immediate post-trauma care of something like a broken leg would reasonably involve strong narcotics. You're not going to be sent home with a batch of it, but may get some on your way to surgery.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#219
post #197
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually the "society" issue is framed as some sort of welfare crisis. I have a more-than-one-hand-full of friends and acquaintances from earlier in life who ruined or ended their life with drugs. And so I don't know anything statistically, but I have seen what caused the people near me to fall into it, and it wasn't some welfare crisis. The number 1 reason I experienced is because some social circles fetishized it. I…

I've seen some of this as well, though through my own anecdotal experience people in my life I've seen struggle with drugs do or did so because: 1. Ongoing health issues they can't afford to resolve. Chronic pain. Mental health issues. Sleep disorders. or 2. Inability to cope with high levels of stress due to financial insecurity, bad relationships, or loneliness. I think the cultural attitudes you describe may have…

I think my point is that it can be both. There is a lot we can do to help in the cases you point out. But I just don’t think the problem is entirely solvable, or even mostly solvable, without changing a destructive sub-culture, which we can’t do in any way I can think of.

At least we are working on things like this vaccine to save lives. That’s something.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#220

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

> The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Drugs get you high. Ants get drunk, goats chase psychedelic lichen, and dolphins pass around puffer fish like a dutchie. > Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine The short term benefits always outweigh the short term costs, but we're moving to a point in history where even it even seemingly outweighs the l…

>You have to reduce the inflow of drugs.

And this is how we get fentanyl. Why import 2 tons of drugs when you can import 2 ounces with the same power.

Attempting to reduce the inflow has just created a violent black market and a dangerous police state.

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