Someone sell them a modern status page!
Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage
211–220 of 236 posts
Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not the one who made the budget assertion; you're mad at someone else. I'm just contesting the idea that the President has no power over the US Federal budget. (I'm of the general opinion that the FAA is fairly well funded, has been very effective at its mission, and could still do with some specific capital projects to modernize non-sexy stuff like NOTAM and METAR handling.)
There is no US federal budget - not a binding one at any rate. The president recommends and Congress passes budgets for internal purposes, but they do not carry the force of law. The numbers that matter are how much Congress appropriates, and if Congress appropriates $X dollars for something the executive branch is expected to spend it, not second guess Congress and say we really didn't want to spend that money.
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Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is no US federal budget - not a binding one at any rate. The president recommends and Congress passes budgets for internal purposes, but they do not carry the force of law. The numbers that matter are how much Congress appropriates, and if Congress appropriates $X dollars for something the executive branch is expected to spend it, not second guess Congress and say we really didn't want to spend that money.
> There is no US federal budget - not a binding one at any rate. Yes there is. > The president recommends and Congress passes budgets for internal purposes This is simply false. > but they do not carry the force of law. Yes, budget bills, like other bills, have the force of law once passed and either signed by the President or vetoed and the President’s veto overridden by both Houses (the President’s budget proposals…
> budget bills, like other bills, have the force of law once passed
First of all congress generally does not pass budget bills, they pass budget resolutions, and congressional resolutions are not submitted to the president for his signature and do not have the force of law.
As far as budget bills (like the Budget Act of 1974) are concerned, it is impossible for a previous congress to pass laws that govern the actions of succeeding congresses in a binding fashion because such laws have the character of congressional rules not statutes, and under the Constitution each house has complete authority over its own rules. So Congress can simply neglect to pass a budget resolution and the only remedy is for individual representatives to raise points of order. The executive branch cannot indict or prosecute anyone in Congress for neglecting to follow congressional rules or laws that have the character of congressional rules.
On the other hand, if you wish to refer to an appropriations bill as a "budget bill" you are merely disagreeing with me (and with congressional practice) over nomenclature. Personally, I have never heard of an appropriations bill referred to as a "budget bill", but I am sure someone does it.
Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Liz Cheney went from #3 in House leadership to a pariah largely overnight. Oh it's Trump fault Liz did what she did? Nope. Liz thought she'd make a name for herself, she did, and is reaping the results of her actions.
Whatever you think of her actions, her journey (and similar for a variety of other anti-Trump Republicans) illustrates the power a President can have over Congress. This has pretty clear implications for the budget process.
Trump was not President at the time of the Liz Cheney leadership controversy, that was after he was out of office. Trump is not President anymore and no one should pretend that he is.
Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There is no US federal budget - not a binding one at any rate. Yes there is. > The president recommends and Congress passes budgets for internal purposes This is simply false. > but they do not carry the force of law. Yes, budget bills, like other bills, have the force of law once passed and either signed by the President or vetoed and the President’s veto overridden by both Houses (the President’s budget proposals…
> budget bills, like other bills, have the force of law once passed First of all congress generally does not pass budget bills, they pass budget resolutions, and congressional resolutions are not submitted to the president for his signature and do not have the force of law. As far as budget bills (like the Budget Act of 1974) are concerned, it is impossible for a previous congress to pass laws that govern the actions…
> First of all congress generally does not pass budget bills, they pass budget resolutions
The budget resolution is a planning framework for the appropriations bills that make up the budget. It is not a “budget”.
> and congressional resolutions are not submitted to the president for his signature, and congressional resolutions are not submitted to the president for his signature and do not have the force of law.
That's not true. All Congressional actions are resolutions (e.g. the USA PATRIOT Act was "House Resolution 3162" of the 107th Congress), and many end submitted to the President and with the force of law. Some are even primarily characterized as "resolutions" after they are signed and have the force of law (See, in terms of the budget space, the use of "continuing resolutions".)
There are types of resolutions that are nonbinding, and do not have the force of law, and the "budget resolution" (which, again, is not the same as the budget) is one of them, but this isn't generally true of "congressional resolutions".
> As far as budget bills (like the Budget Act of 1974) are concerned, it is impossible for a previous congress to pass laws that govern the actions of succeeding congresses in a binding fashion
The 1974 Budget Act is not (relevant to this discussion) a budget bill, it is a meta-budget bill, or maybe even a meta-meta-budget bill (that is, a bill on the process by which Congress will plan future budgets.) You are correct that it is not binding on future Congresses, but this has no bearing on the budget not being binding, merely a past Congress's plan on how to plan annually to arrive at a budget is not binding.
> So Congress can simply neglect to pass a budget resolution
…which isn’t a budget, but a plan for one…
> and the only remedy is for individual representatives to raise points of order.
Well, sure, but the budget resolution isn’t the budget. If Congress doesn’t pass a budget (or only passes part of one), then the remedy is “spending governed by the parts not passed stops” (that is, a government shutdown.) This is…rather noticeable.
> On the other hand, if you wish to refer to an appropriations bill as a “budget bill” you are merely disagreeing with me (and with congressional practice) over nomenclature. Personally, I have never heard of an appropriations bill referred to as a “budget bill”, but I am sure someone does it.
While it is common to refer to the aggregate of appropriations as a “budget”, its not usually used for individual appropriations bills as a “budget bill” unless they are a single consolidated bill, which is typically referred to as a “budget bill”. Budget bills are frequently introduced, but less frequently passed. But not having a single budget bill passed is not “not having a budget” or “not having a budget with the force of law”, its “not having a budget in which the annual appropriations were adopted in a single bill”. Which is…less significant.
Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a helpful exercise for naive young people who always believe the simple publicly-reported stories, and haven't yet had the life experience to know there's often more to the story, which only comes out years later (if ever), or via private conversations to deeply-knowledgeable personnel!
No, it's really not a helpful exercise. An actual helpful exercise is to determine when an official story doesn't make sense, and to understand that there is probably more to it. In this case, the official story make perfect sense. Doubting it is just creating fairy tales.
> perfect sense
So you just inherently believe all that is reported as fact?
Remember when the Gulf of Tonkin incident was “for real really real” and we invaded Vietnam?
Or the WMDs in Iraq?
I’m not tinfoil hatting - Just calling out how interesting it is 3 major events in a documented as fragile industry happen so close.
That’s literally all I mentioned in my orig comment.
Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There is no US federal budget - not a binding one at any rate. Yes there is. > The president recommends and Congress passes budgets for internal purposes This is simply false. > but they do not carry the force of law. Yes, budget bills, like other bills, have the force of law once passed and either signed by the President or vetoed and the President’s veto overridden by both Houses (the President’s budget proposals…
> budget bills, like other bills, have the force of law once passed First of all congress generally does not pass budget bills, they pass budget resolutions, and congressional resolutions are not submitted to the president for his signature and do not have the force of law. As far as budget bills (like the Budget Act of 1974) are concerned, it is impossible for a previous congress to pass laws that govern the actions…
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Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, it's really not a helpful exercise. An actual helpful exercise is to determine when an official story doesn't make sense, and to understand that there is probably more to it. In this case, the official story make perfect sense. Doubting it is just creating fairy tales.
> perfect sense So you just inherently believe all that is reported as fact? Remember when the Gulf of Tonkin incident was “for real really real” and we invaded Vietnam? Or the WMDs in Iraq? I’m not tinfoil hatting - Just calling out how interesting it is 3 major events in a documented as fragile industry happen so close. That’s literally all I mentioned in my orig comment.
> Remember when the Gulf of Tonkin incident was “for real really real” and we invaded Vietnam?
Well, no, the US military was (openly) in Vietnam in support of South Vietnam long before the Gulf of Tonkin incident. Heck, the US military was there (again overtly) in support of France for several years before South Vietnam existed as such. And, ironically, they were there in support of the Viet Minh – which later became both North Vietnam and the Viet Cong – even before that, with almost no break between, starting in July 1945.
Insofar as there was an international incident that led to the US invasion of Vietnam it was – though it took a few years for the response – Pearl Harbor, not the Gulf of Tonkin. All the subsequent fighting in Indochina was breakdown in relation between erstwhile allies who were all already present, after the Japanese were driven out and had surrendered.
Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not that USA is doing incredibly well with bureaucracy, it's that everybody else is doing worse for one reason or another
I don't see much evidence that the US is the best functioning country around. It has a great geographic position and managed to get a great economy (in no small part due to said geographic advantages in WWI and WWII), but in measures that involve the government providing good services the US isn't doing any better than other developed countries.
in fact we're doing far worse on many fronts. we spent more per student than almost any other first world nation but we place dead last in outcomes.
Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
> budget bills, like other bills, have the force of law once passed First of all congress generally does not pass budget bills, they pass budget resolutions, and congressional resolutions are not submitted to the president for his signature and do not have the force of law. As far as budget bills (like the Budget Act of 1974) are concerned, it is impossible for a previous congress to pass laws that govern the actions…
> First of all congress generally does not pass budget bills, they pass budget resolutions The budget resolution is a planning framework for the appropriations bills that make up the budget. It is not a “budget”. > and congressional resolutions are not submitted to the president for his signature, and congressional resolutions are not submitted to the president for his signature and do not have the force of law. That…
> The budget resolution is a planning framework for the appropriations bills that make up the budget. It is not a “budget”.
Guess what the President's budget proposal says on the cover?
"Budget of the U.S. Government, Fiscal Year 2023"
And if we look inside do we find a list of congressional appropriations? No. Instead we find a list of appropriations requests and explanatory information for congressional appropriators. Typical chapter headings have language like this:
"The Budget requests $773 billion in discretionary funding for DOD, a $69 billion or 9.8-percent increase from the 2021 enacted level."
So I am sorry, I cannot take seriously the idea that appropriations bills are "budget bills" or specify a federal "budget" except in an informal sense, one contrary to that used by the federal government itself.
> All Congressional actions are resolutions.
I certainly agree in the technical sense, and since we are debating nomenclature here I should be more careful.