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Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

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Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#211

Post by uzername »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #161
uzername wrote: post #143

I work at a pretty large corporation that uses docker desktop. The engineering team is in the low hundreds spread across the world. We happily pay for what we use and it's all great. We don't really use many features of docker desktop though. We have our own image space (ecr) and I don't think anyone is using or relying on extensions. I'm sure some team will eventually socialize an alternative. The reason we went thr…

Do you/your corporation use Docker Compose?

We deploy everything in kubernetes in the live environments, with databases in rds, s3 for objects, sometimes dynamo for other data types or patterns.

Locally there's docker compose for the APIs (Java, python) and usually postgres. It's a good observation, interrupting that workflow would be quite a pain.

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#212

Post by kaashif »

ahepp wrote: post #149
brianwawok wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux I just install some stuff from apt, so I assume you can brew install something to run it command line (no GUI)

Docker uses container functionality specific to the Linux kernel. So on Linux, you can install a relatively lightweight engine. But on MacOS or Windows, you need to install the entire "Docker Desktop" app, which secretly spins up a Linux VM in the background, and presents a (pretty poor) abstraction as if this is all running on the host machine.

On Windows, you don't really need to use Docker Desktop, I personally find it more convenient to run just plain old Docker in WSL. It's still a Linux VM, but you get more control over it.

I never understood what the point of Docker Desktop was on Windows if WSL exists.

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#213

Post by [deleted] »

roughly wrote: post #142
_skel wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect the initial negative take on the license change was correct, and this is the dying gasp of the company. It's just taking longer than expected to replace Docker Desktop. But I am seeing a lot of progress on Podman and Rancher and a few others, and some of the larger tech companies are also building in-house replacements. A lot of the people who had to scramble to find a replacement are not happy about it. In…

What gets me about this is the math doesn't make any sense. Docker charges $10/developer/month. Those developers are paid $150k+/yr, fully loaded to the company (insurance, taxes, accounting, etc) is probably double that, but call it $250k/yr to be nice. You take 3 developers and have them spend a quarter on replacing Docker Desktop, that's nearly $200k in developer costs spent replacing a tool that's gonna cost your…

[deleted]

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#214

Post by nxmnxm99 »

_skel wrote: post #130
paxys wrote: post #8

I remember everyone had written Docker off for dead when they announced their updated pricing plans, but they really made perfect sense, and I am happy to see the company recover. A large chunk of the tech world today relies on their products, but they were making next to nothing for it. It is definitely worth it for large companies to throw a few dollars their way considering the massive amount of value they are get…

I suspect the initial negative take on the license change was correct, and this is the dying gasp of the company. It's just taking longer than expected to replace Docker Desktop. But I am seeing a lot of progress on Podman and Rancher and a few others, and some of the larger tech companies are also building in-house replacements. A lot of the people who had to scramble to find a replacement are not happy about it. In…

If $135m in 2 years is a dying breath then Jesus take the wheel

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#215

Post by dijit »

HatchedLake721 wrote: post #184
roughly wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What gets me about this is the math doesn't make any sense. Docker charges $10/developer/month. Those developers are paid $150k+/yr, fully loaded to the company (insurance, taxes, accounting, etc) is probably double that, but call it $250k/yr to be nice. You take 3 developers and have them spend a quarter on replacing Docker Desktop, that's nearly $200k in developer costs spent replacing a tool that's gonna cost your…

Amen. This is why I don’t want to sell to developers. “Here’s a solution that will save you hours every month, it’s only $9 p/m.” “$9 p/m???” - asked a developer choking on their avocado toast “That’s the same price as Spotify! Meh, I can develop the same thing myself in 2 weeks.” 2 months later. "Well, it's almost done. At least I won't be wasting $9 p/m."

Its not devs buying these tools in a company context, and devs are not on universally high salaries.

I made the point before that these little costs rack up quickly, I can speak to my costs:

Gitlab: 19/m

Docker: 24/m

Slack: 12.5/m

Copilot: 19/m

Office: 12.5/m

Tailscale: 15/m

oslash: 6/mo

pagerduty: 41/m

Jira/Confluence: 26.25/m

Calendly: 16/m

Bonusly: 4.5/m

Snyk: 98/m

Figma: 42/m

Lens: 20/m

Postman: 29/m

Sourcegraph: 99/m

Jetbrains: 1xIDE: 23/m

or:

Jetbrains: All: 78/m

This is obviously a non-exhaustive list, and isn’t the highest subscription tiers; its the first ones offering SSO, or that permit a mid-sized group.

That doesnt take into account other specialised tools like Perforce (huge cost) or Teletrik: $1,299/y

This also doesn't take into account that you sometimes need to buy seats in batches of 5, or if you have an overlap of people for even a day that then you must buy a license for the whole period.

So there can easily be overages.

So, $490~ is the minimum per seat cost in my org, (there are other licenses that I cant think about right now, including docusign for example, and it doesn't include perforce).

That already represents about 19% of a monthly take home salary for the median developer in Sweden.

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#216

Post by rpgmaker »

vasco wrote: post #160
roughly wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, I'll do the math: $250k/yr/developer, so for 1 quarter, that's $62.5k, 3 developers for one quarter is $187.5k. Docker costs $10/mo, or $120/yr, so for 1000 developers, that's $120k/yr, or a payoff time of 1.5 years, assuming nobody ever has to touch anything ever again. Let's say our solution requires 1 developer-quarter per year to maintain - bugfixes, upgrades, deployments, etc. That's $62.5k/yr. That pushes o…

A big mistake with this math is that globally developers are not paid anywhere close to 250k/yr even fully loaded for the company. In my country in Europe it's closer to 60k/yr fully loaded. There is cheaper. Also most companies aren't gonna build something from scratch, they are going to use something else that is also available. That being said this type of exercise is good to show because many managers do not do i…

Man they're really screwing developers over in Europe. That's what they earn in the third world.

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#217

Post by enumjorge »

ilyt wrote: post #182
lopkeny12ko wrote: post #136

I'm surprised Docker Desktop drives so much revenue. As far as I know, it is a Mac and Windows-specific tool. Are FAANG and FAANG-like developers not using Linux machines locally despite deploying production software on Linux servers? Even for enterprise developers who use Mac and Windows, isn't 99% of day-to-day development on a Linux box you SSH into anyways? I've never really quite grasped the need for Docker Desk…

There is a myth that software developers are good with computers but that's mostly not the case, hence heavy mac/windows usage, harder to break than someone with linux machine and root. Also Ubuntu kinda breaks more for normal users.

You're forgetting the good developers who want to minimize the time spent dealing with issues or idiosyncrasies at the OS level.

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#218

Post by mlcrypto »

alfalfasprout wrote: post #135
jbverschoor wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don't understand is that devs that get paid 200k+ complain about getting any software license

Bad take. It's a tool needed for the business that the business is expected to pay for. The license belongs to the company not the employee.

And it's against most company policy to install unapproved software and deliver it to customers

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#219

Post by ipaddr »

dijit wrote: post #215
HatchedLake721 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amen. This is why I don’t want to sell to developers. “Here’s a solution that will save you hours every month, it’s only $9 p/m.” “$9 p/m???” - asked a developer choking on their avocado toast “That’s the same price as Spotify! Meh, I can develop the same thing myself in 2 weeks.” 2 months later. "Well, it's almost done. At least I won't be wasting $9 p/m."

Its not devs buying these tools in a company context, and devs are not on universally high salaries. I made the point before that these little costs rack up quickly, I can speak to my costs: Gitlab: 19/m Docker: 24/m Slack: 12.5/m Copilot: 19/m Office: 12.5/m Tailscale: 15/m oslash: 6/mo pagerduty: 41/m Jira/Confluence: 26.25/m Calendly: 16/m Bonusly: 4.5/m Snyk: 98/m Figma: 42/m Lens: 20/m Postman: 29/m Sourcegraph:…

There are many $1,500 per seat subscriptions that could be purchased by themselves. They usually offer some unique business value and are worth it but when free products exists that are as good or better not using them is lazy. Some services like bonusly should not be per seat.

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#220

Post by rhaway84773 »

roughly wrote: post #142
_skel wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect the initial negative take on the license change was correct, and this is the dying gasp of the company. It's just taking longer than expected to replace Docker Desktop. But I am seeing a lot of progress on Podman and Rancher and a few others, and some of the larger tech companies are also building in-house replacements. A lot of the people who had to scramble to find a replacement are not happy about it. In…

What gets me about this is the math doesn't make any sense. Docker charges $10/developer/month. Those developers are paid $150k+/yr, fully loaded to the company (insurance, taxes, accounting, etc) is probably double that, but call it $250k/yr to be nice. You take 3 developers and have them spend a quarter on replacing Docker Desktop, that's nearly $200k in developer costs spent replacing a tool that's gonna cost your…

For my company which went from its internal hand rolled ticketing system to Jira, Azure, etc. the big issue is that our hand rolled system, even though it had limited features, was significantly more suited to our needs.

It was much faster, had the exact fields we needed, and the exact workflow we wanted. It provided email alerts using the rules thst made sense for us and did I mention it was ridiculously faster?

We went from a single developer probably spending a few weeks in a year to maintain/augment a ticketing system that worked really great for us, to paying hundreds of thousands for something that doesn’t work well at all.

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