Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Rising rent, not poverty, is the real driver of homelessness

kcrw.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 376 posts

Re: Rising rent, not poverty, is the real driver of homelessness

#211

Post by JumpCrisscross »

bradlys wrote: post #165
klipt wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> SF is socially progressive. It is incredibly fiscally conservative Wouldn't "fiscally conservative" mean low taxes and low spending? I believe SF spends about $57,000 annually per homeless person which doesn't sound very fiscally conservative. Of course a lot of that money goes missing while being funneled through the homeless industrial complex...

> low taxes and low spending? Almost no one in power in the USA is actually low taxes and low spending. Maybe a few libertarians scattered throughout the country that managed to get a seat but they're a very small minority. Everyone is all about high taxes and high spending. It's just "high taxes for thee but not for me". So, for instance, republicans will repeal taxes on the rich and large corporations even when we…

> no one in power in the USA is actually low taxes and low spending

Wyoming says hello.

Re: Rising rent, not poverty, is the real driver of homelessness

#212

Post by 0_____0 »

klipt wrote: post #126
danjac wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe San Francisco is just not suitable any more? There's nothing magic about SF's geography that makes it a tech hub. It's not a mining town that needs to be next to coal or minerals, or a ski resort town that needs some mountains and snow. It's based on work that can literally be done anywhere. Hollywood, after all, was just a dusty desert town that became the hub of the movie business because it was easier to mov…

Tech hubs grow organically from network effects. It's impossible to move the whole network in one go. Best you can do is make one network gradually shrink and another one gradually grow somewhere else.

Counterpoint: Shenzhen

Re: Rising rent, not poverty, is the real driver of homelessness

#213

Post by janalsncm »

anm89 wrote: post #48
jeffbee wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This theory is wrong and it is easy to see why. Rates of homelessness are not correlated with "life choices" or "events" at all. Mental illness rates don't vary much geographically and they don't correlate with homelessness. Same with drug abuse and disease. However housing costs are very strongly correlated with homelessness. Great book on the subject: https://homelessnesshousingproblem.com/ Edit: prospective reply…

> Rates of homelessness are not correlated with "life choices" What could this possibly even mean? Someone roles a dice and then somebody materializes on the side of the road with a tent and a shopping cart and a fentanyl addiction? This person just existed in a choiceless state up until the exact moment where the gained agency and simultaneously became homeless?

It means that poor choices and addiction can’t explain why San Francisco has so much higher homelessness than other places like West Virginia, which has much higher addiction rates.

Re: Rising rent, not poverty, is the real driver of homelessness

#215

Post by c7b »

dasil003 wrote: post #176
danjac wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe San Francisco is just not suitable any more? There's nothing magic about SF's geography that makes it a tech hub. It's not a mining town that needs to be next to coal or minerals, or a ski resort town that needs some mountains and snow. It's based on work that can literally be done anywhere. Hollywood, after all, was just a dusty desert town that became the hub of the movie business because it was easier to mov…

This is a questionable take on two levels. First, yes, yes there is something magic about SF's geography, it's the closest major city to the largest VC hub in the world. These companies thrive on young talent that prefers to live in a city. It's not dissimilar to the gold rush 170 years ago when you think about it. Second, what do you mean "San Francisco is just not suitable any more"? The tech companies and their em…

Both tech and VC are vastly more mobile than anything to do with the gold rush or even other 'technology' sectors with heavy physical assets, it's purely a coordination game.

Re: Rising rent, not poverty, is the real driver of homelessness

#216

Post by adasdasdas »

wolverine876 wrote: post #158
dionidium wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the thing I always say about the people who complain about tech workers and gentrification in a place like San Francisco is like, look, if you can't figure out how to gain from an influx of wealthy, highly-educated, low-criminality, nerdy tech workers, then that's really on you. What a gift! Any city would be lucky to have that "problem." You have to actively work to make that a negative (by, say, refusing to a…

> if you can't figure out how to gain from an influx of wealthy, highly-educated, low-criminality, nerdy tech workers, then that's really on you. What a gift! Those tech workers, once they move, are not customers, they are the city. It's their city as much as anyone's, any failures or successes are theirs; what have they done?

They made it easier/more profitable to develop land by driving prices up

Re: Rising rent, not poverty, is the real driver of homelessness

#217

Post by WalterBright »

germinalphrase wrote: post #94
danjac wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe San Francisco is just not suitable any more? There's nothing magic about SF's geography that makes it a tech hub. It's not a mining town that needs to be next to coal or minerals, or a ski resort town that needs some mountains and snow. It's based on work that can literally be done anywhere. Hollywood, after all, was just a dusty desert town that became the hub of the movie business because it was easier to mov…

“Hollywood, after all, was just a dusty desert town that became the hub of the movie business because it was easier to move there and start a new one than dealing with Edison's lawyers back East…” Yes, but also no. Keep in mind the popularity of Westerns in the 1930’s-1950’s and the ease with which you can get to desert/mountain/beach/city/forest/etc settings within a relatively short drive from L.A. That said, I gen…

After all, the Battle of the Bulge did take place in the California desert. Medieval England looks like California, too. Even the alien worlds of Star Trek look suspiciously like California.

Re: Rising rent, not poverty, is the real driver of homelessness

#218

Post by twelve40 »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #201
dasil003 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a questionable take on two levels. First, yes, yes there is something magic about SF's geography, it's the closest major city to the largest VC hub in the world. These companies thrive on young talent that prefers to live in a city. It's not dissimilar to the gold rush 170 years ago when you think about it. Second, what do you mean "San Francisco is just not suitable any more"? The tech companies and their em…

it's the closest major city to the largest VC hub San Jose has entered the room. San Francisco is cute and that's why people like it and ignore San Jose.

haha fair enough, closest cute major city : ) As a longtime South Bay resident, it's super-boring down here and actually many of the same problems, expensive and lots of homeless.

But all of that is beside the point. The real interesting question is whether the companies will yank the leash Musk-style and have everyone come back here, or not. There is a lot of hype in both directions, but I'd say that debate is not settled yet.

Re: Rising rent, not poverty, is the real driver of homelessness

#219

Post by throwaway742 »

WalterBright wrote: post #214

Should check the drug addiction rate among the street dwellers before drawing such conclusions. In Seattle, 90% are addicted to drugs or alcohol, or are mentally ill. https://komonews.com/news/local/komo-news-special-seattle-is...

That number seems unbelievably high. LAHSA for example found that only 15% of homeless individuals have a substance abuse disorder.

https://www.lahsa.org/documents?id=3422-2019-greater-los-ang...

Re: Rising rent, not poverty, is the real driver of homelessness

#220

Post by georgeecollins »

wolverine876 wrote: post #153
danjac wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe San Francisco is just not suitable any more? There's nothing magic about SF's geography that makes it a tech hub. It's not a mining town that needs to be next to coal or minerals, or a ski resort town that needs some mountains and snow. It's based on work that can literally be done anywhere. Hollywood, after all, was just a dusty desert town that became the hub of the movie business because it was easier to mov…

> There's nothing magic about SF's geography It includes two of the world's top ten universities, incredible natural beauty there and nearby, excellent weather (locals complain, as locals do, but it's wonderful), and all the resources and people are gathered there. It's hard to imagine the return on investment of moving.

It's also a place that is relatively welcoming to people from almost any part of the world. It's not perfect (no where is) but there a lot of places in the US where if you came from another continent or practiced an unusual religion you would feel more uncomfortable then you would in SF. That's a quality it has possessed for decades, for historical reasons.
Post reply on HN