Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art • Hacker News Board

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#211

Post by jknoepfler » Fri, Jan 06, 2023, 5:45 PM UTC

bitwize wrote: post #180

jknoepfler wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an extremely reductive claim. Can you really not think of more mundane reasons someone might find themselves moderating reddit? It's hard to imagine "ideology" being relevant to the vast majority of reddit... Do you really think the moderators of ELI5 or PeopleFuckingDying or some obscure porn reddit or whatever are primarily concerned with "ideology"? I used to help moderate a poker forum. I was a professiona…

It's common knowledge now that abstaining from politics is taking the side of the oppressor. This has the effect of giving many subreddits and other topical communities a political orientation even if politics is nominally offtopic. To give an example, it is increasingly hard to find an online knitting community that tolerates conservative viewpoints; most have followed the lead of Ravelry.

So the implication you're drawing from this... which was the topic at hand... is that all knitting forum moderators are motivated exclusively be the desire to espouse an ideology?

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#212

Post by pixl97 » Fri, Jan 06, 2023, 5:46 PM UTC

ilyt wrote: post #143

ilaksh wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a moderator for r/robots for awhile. I even spent a few hundred dollars hiring an artist to create a theme. I begged them to help me pin down what the subreddit was about since the submissions were all over the place, and some people seemed to think it was for a certain type of robot content and others a different type. Most ignored the question. I tried to share articles and videos of actual leading edge robot…

Good for them. You obviously wanted something else than the actual users.

Eh, the problem with this idea is everything appeals to the lowest common denominator eventually. All subs (and even HN) would fall to Sturgeon's law if lead to its logical conclusion.

Smaller forums in the past tend to deal with this by having some groups that were strongly moderated with a strict set of rules and no/low tolerance of them being broke. Then more 'general' discussions where the rules were lessoned.

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#213

Post by danogentili » Fri, Jan 06, 2023, 5:48 PM UTC

yieldcrv wrote: post #204

danogentili wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This stupid argument gets thrown around so much it's become really annoying, what really matters in art is the process, not the result; intent, not content. A model randomly remixing human works to reach an approximated result that matches a few words inserted by a human cannot be put on the same plane as a human expressing a concept or inner feelings using knowledge he acquired by looking at other works. When I look…

> what really matters in art is the process, not the result; intent, not content in the fine art world, for now, that's been whats driven value. and when I am in that world to move cash around reliably, thats what I consider and I almost don't consider the aesthetics at all. outside of the fine art world, there basically is no art market and it is purely aesthetics. the process and intent is irrelevant, only the resu…

Sure, different people like different things.

Netflix wastes the billions it earns on the really good productions like Arcane into hundreds of garbage statistics-driven shows canceled after the first seasons, because some people like watching meaningful, intent-filled stories made by passionate humans, and others just want anything to play in the background while doing other stuff.

And this is precisely why AI art will not be the end of human creativity: humans will keep creating, and other people will like watching the passionate work of other humans, not randomly generated garbage.

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#214

Post by cyborgx7 » Fri, Jan 06, 2023, 5:49 PM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #148

cyborgx7 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once again, artists trying to stake a claim of personal ownership of a section of human expression standing in the way of technological and cultural progress.

I would argue we're on the precipice of a cultural regress - where "content" on the internet goes from 95% junk to 99.5% junk since junk is getting so much easier to generate. Consider "Elsa-gate" on YouTube a few years ago for an example of this in action.

I don't think limiting and gate-keeping are good for cultural progress. The way to deal with the amount of content is building better systems (not necessarily technological in nature) for curation. Building artificial barriers to what and how things can be created will only harm "cultural progress" (put in quotes because I am not sure I like all the implications of the concept).

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#215

Post by jknoepfler » Fri, Jan 06, 2023, 5:50 PM UTC

mring33621 wrote: post #190

jknoepfler wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an extremely reductive claim. Can you really not think of more mundane reasons someone might find themselves moderating reddit? It's hard to imagine "ideology" being relevant to the vast majority of reddit... Do you really think the moderators of ELI5 or PeopleFuckingDying or some obscure porn reddit or whatever are primarily concerned with "ideology"? I used to help moderate a poker forum. I was a professiona…

"keep discussions constructive and topical." is subjective

Of course it is. That does not entail that forums moderators (myself included) are exclusively motivated by a desire to push an ideology, which was the topic at hand.

Nor does "subjective" entail "ideological" unless you're going to torture the term ideology being having a useful meaning.

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#216

Post by bitwize » Fri, Jan 06, 2023, 5:51 PM UTC

jknoepfler wrote: post #211

bitwize wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's common knowledge now that abstaining from politics is taking the side of the oppressor. This has the effect of giving many subreddits and other topical communities a political orientation even if politics is nominally offtopic. To give an example, it is increasingly hard to find an online knitting community that tolerates conservative viewpoints; most have followed the lead of Ravelry.

So the implication you're drawing from this... which was the topic at hand... is that all knitting forum moderators are motivated exclusively be the desire to espouse an ideology?

No, but preventing the Nazi camel from getting its nose in the tent is now an important motivator for moderators.

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#217

Post by jknoepfler » Fri, Jan 06, 2023, 5:51 PM UTC

aliqot wrote: post #176

jknoepfler wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an extremely reductive claim. Can you really not think of more mundane reasons someone might find themselves moderating reddit? It's hard to imagine "ideology" being relevant to the vast majority of reddit... Do you really think the moderators of ELI5 or PeopleFuckingDying or some obscure porn reddit or whatever are primarily concerned with "ideology"? I used to help moderate a poker forum. I was a professiona…

> It's hard to imagine "ideology" being relevant to the vast majority of reddit... This is egregiously incorrect.

In what sense? Would tipping that scale entail that "all reddit moderators are only and exclusively motivated by ideology?"

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#218

Post by richbell » Fri, Jan 06, 2023, 5:53 PM UTC

traverseda wrote: post #201

13of40 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe this is already well-known, but I saw another behavior recently on some subrreddits where a lot of new posts are seemingly getting a single downvote to a score of zero. I suspected there was some troll doing it, so I went down the line and gave about 20 or 30 of them a single up vote back to one, refreshed the page, and most of them had immediately gone back to zero. I think the mods must have a button for squa…

/r/3Dprinting has no such button for what it's worth. If there is they haven't given it to me.

They've added custom CSS to hide it, it isn't actually removed. You can easily bypass this by disabling custom CSS or using a mobile app.

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#219

Post by visarga » Fri, Jan 06, 2023, 5:53 PM UTC

danogentili wrote: post #147

CuriouslyC wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we're at it we should publicly flog anyone who's ever done any art in the style of anyone else before them, because they also stole ideas from the public.

This stupid argument gets thrown around so much it's become really annoying, what really matters in art is the process, not the result; intent, not content. A model randomly remixing human works to reach an approximated result that matches a few words inserted by a human cannot be put on the same plane as a human expressing a concept or inner feelings using knowledge he acquired by looking at other works. When I look…

> what really matters in art is the process

AI art has its own process. It can be quite therapeutic.

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#220

Post by visarga » Fri, Jan 06, 2023, 5:56 PM UTC

danogentili wrote: post #202

MrNeon wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what really matters in art is the process You don't get to define what is art. Art can and does move people who have absolutely no idea of what the process to create it was. You have your way to experience art, it isn't the only way. In fact you have a limited ability to learn about the process, how much of it are you making up in your head?

I can very well get to define what art means to me. Process is actually very easy to infer if the art is made by a human, since the emotions that are being conveyed by the humans behind the screen are displayed directly on screen. I don't deny that I might get moved by a piece of AI art, but even so, my first thought goes to what human art was used to generated this specific piece that inspired this emotion. An AI ca…

> I don't deny that I might get moved by a piece of AI art, but even so, my first thought goes to what human art was used to generated this specific piece that inspired this emotion.

Yes, exactly, behind AI art there are countless human artists and their experiences. You should not dismiss AI so easily. What it offers you is a new way to see your favourite artists, to interact with their works, to continue dreaming the same dream, and add your own story to their own.

AI art is a deeper way to engage with art than simply viewing. For the first time we can ask questions, we can explore vast landscapes of style and content. Only imagination has similar characteristics - goal directedness, freedom of movement, extreme creativity, one-time-use - imagine and throw away most of your ideas, a space of privacy and freedom - assuming you run your own models, AI art is more private than using the internet.