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A Linux Evening

fabiensanglard.net

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Re: A Linux Evening

#211

Post by mechanical_bear »

jakesgates wrote: post #192

I really appreciate the write-up, as I have had many 'linux evenings' myself, and it always gets on my nerves when some members of the community act as if linux 'just works' for almost all users. Worth noting I love linux, and am a happy user, but I have had quite a few instances of relying on a more-experienced person previously running into the issue, or else I would still be stuck with those previous problems..

It does just work for most users. They don’t get online and post 2000 word blog entries about their successfully completing their work for the day with no hiccups.

Re: A Linux Evening

#213

Post by nephanth »

ronjouch wrote: post #197
freeplay wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice. What is your go to desktop environment for them?

- Generally, GNOME with the dash-to-panel/dash-to-dock extension-du-jour to have a left-side panel with app buttons (so, a "Ubuntu/Unity"-like look). It baffles me how stock GNOME still insists not to provide a left/bottom "dock" / task switcher as a built-in option, and force you to go to the menu every time you want to access / switch to an app, but here we are with extensions oÔ. - That being said, a well-configur…

For thunderbird column header, there is an extension that locks them (unless you're ctrl+clicking them)

Might be more intuitive than locking them?

Re: A Linux Evening

#214

Post by shadowofneptune »

Nvidia drivers, signed kernel modules, and Nvidia signed kernel modules are my own most common sources of 'Linux evenings.' SecureBoot is quite possible on Linux until you need to reach for these, then it becomes a headache.

Re: A Linux Evening

#215

Post by ronjouch »

nephanth wrote: post #213
ronjouch wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Generally, GNOME with the dash-to-panel/dash-to-dock extension-du-jour to have a left-side panel with app buttons (so, a "Ubuntu/Unity"-like look). It baffles me how stock GNOME still insists not to provide a left/bottom "dock" / task switcher as a built-in option, and force you to go to the menu every time you want to access / switch to an app, but here we are with extensions oÔ. - That being said, a well-configur…

For thunderbird column header, there is an extension that locks them (unless you're ctrl+clicking them) Might be more intuitive than locking them?

Thanks! Yup, if you look at the bugzilla link I shared above, you'll see I mention this extension in the last comment: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=237051#c11 .

I couldn't check it as I run Tb beta (which the extension doesn't support last time I check), but I might give it a try next time I maintain one of these machines ..... or not:

0. They never ever need to click it to re-order. Why bother with an unneeded feature?

1. Extensions break! UserChrome.css too, but maybe less so :) , and a CSS rule is simpler/smaller in added complexity & potential for bugs than an extension.

2. Also, hiding the columns means one less bit of chrome to read/parse. Hiding stuff avoids misclicks, but also increases GUI legibility for people with bad eyesight.

Re: A Linux Evening

#216

Post by themaninthedark »

swayvil wrote: post #104
antihero wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux is like driving a car with your hands in the engine

This contradicts my experience. I use Linux every day and I never touch the engine. I also set up Linux for computer-illiterate old ladies. They love it.

Contradicts my experience as well.

I started out using DOS in the mid 90's to play games, used Windows 3.1, skipped over to 98SE then XP and 7.

I have used Macs before, not enough to make an impression.

I tried Linux back when I was in collage during the XP days but it always seemed to need more tweaking than my XP install and the lack of gaming kept me on Windows.

Currently I am running Linux Mint. I install the OS and go. No need to tweak or mess with command line.

I am not that interested in which OS I am running aside from the fact that I dislike telemetry and forced updates. I want the OS to get our of the way so that I can do whatever I am trying to do, Linux seems to be there now. It feels like Windows has regressed, with setting pages buried in 5 different places.

Re: A Linux Evening

#217

Post by chungy »

bradwood wrote: post #210
ronjouch wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but chiming in nevertheless, as I do also "set up Linux for computer-illiterate old ladies" . They all roll Debian stable with unattended_upgrades and it's an absolute joy of stability. Not that I would use Debian stable for my personal machines: I want the latest shiniest and I want to be close to upstream to report bugs when they're fresh and easy to fix by the maintainer (yes, "I use arch btw" indeed), but…

what about Fedora workstation for the old-lady use case? I'm about to give my 12 year old non-technical daughter a linux laptop, and wondering on distro. I'm thinking Fedora but open to be convinced otherwise?

Pick something you're willing to maintain. Stable releases tend to reduce maintenance and surprises.

Re: A Linux Evening

#218

Post by shadowofneptune »

hackeraccount wrote: post #184

The saddest thing of all (I think there's some XKCD referencing this) is when you have a technical problem like this and you find some post from a year or two years ago exactly describing the problem. And there's no reply. Empathy isn't the word. It's feeling like you're trapped on a deserted island in a vast empty sea - suddenly realizing that there's another S.O.B. who's been right next to you the whole time and al…

https://xkcd.com/979/

I swore that this one was about the finding only person who had the same issue but who then had posted 'fixed it' soon after. That's even worse, it's like being stuck on the island and watching the S.O.B. walk on water into the distance.

Re: A Linux Evening

#219

Post by ronjouch »

bradwood wrote: post #210
ronjouch wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but chiming in nevertheless, as I do also "set up Linux for computer-illiterate old ladies" . They all roll Debian stable with unattended_upgrades and it's an absolute joy of stability. Not that I would use Debian stable for my personal machines: I want the latest shiniest and I want to be close to upstream to report bugs when they're fresh and easy to fix by the maintainer (yes, "I use arch btw" indeed), but…

what about Fedora workstation for the old-lady use case? I'm about to give my 12 year old non-technical daughter a linux laptop, and wondering on distro. I'm thinking Fedora but open to be convinced otherwise?

For your daughter tinkering with a distro, yeah Fedora sounds awesome :)

For the old ladies, no: Fedora has a short release cycle, and no LTS; not great for maximal stability. "a version of Fedora is usually supported for at least 13 months" ( https://endoflife.date/fedora ), while Debian is security-supported at least 5 years! ( https://endoflife.date/debian )

Debian's whole project architecture & release cycle is built towards being stable bedrock, I see virtually no reason to use anything else if you aim at max. stability and don't care about running old (but still secure!) software.

Re: A Linux Evening

#220

Post by fragmede »

elsjaako wrote: post #204
jodrellblank wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're doing the same thing, dragging the original conversation off into berating the commentor for not fixing it themselves because you owe them nothing and they shouldn't be so entitled. > " Still better than the competition, where such problems will never be fixed unless it generates sufficient bad PR... " The competition comes under "pay someone else to do it".

What OS are you using where you can get the vendor to implement kernel features to fix obscure driver issues? I'm sure there's an amount of money you can throw at Microsoft to get something done. I don't know how much it is, but I'm guessing it's more than it would cost to find a vendor to do it for Linux. The serious answer to " What is the point in having all of the drivers be open sourced and mainlined if we're no…

With enough money you can get that kind of support from any Linux vendor, eg RedHat or Oracle.
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