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Ask HN: If I get locked out of everything, please try to help me

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Re: Ask HN: If I get locked out of everything, please try to help me

#211

Post by bawolff »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #201
bawolff wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sympathise that this would be really difficult for homeless people. But i am not homeless. I'm sorry if this is cold, but should i have to have an insecure account because homeless people exist? Its not like google has a monopoly on email service providers.

but should i have to have an insecure account because homeless people exist? No, of course not. This is like when people who drive get chuffed about pedestrians wanting their lives to work and acting like "Well, if we do anything for you , then my life will fall apart." As if we can only build a world that works for cars or build a world that works for non-drivers and the other camp just has to accept a sucky life an…

Because the topic of this thread is suggesting google should reduce security for everyone.

You can't have google letting people back in their account unverified if they ask nicely not affect other people with accounts.

Re: Ask HN: If I get locked out of everything, please try to help me

#212

Post by jve »

jsnell wrote: post #141

> Google says it will send me a link in 72 hours. Right, so why don't you believe that? A lot of people have lost their only second factor in the past. That's what the recovery flow is there for. Why not at least wait that amount of time first before escalating to using HN as a support forum? > Google is convinced I'm trying to break into my own accounts That's like saying that the front door is convinced you're tryi…

> Google says it will send me a link in 72 hours.

Wanted to say exactly that - just wait for that amount of time. Had to help recover from successful phishing attack and deal with 24h recovery process and they DID send the link.

Re: Ask HN: If I get locked out of everything, please try to help me

#213

Post by [deleted] »

bawolff wrote: post #211
DoreenMichele wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but should i have to have an insecure account because homeless people exist? No, of course not. This is like when people who drive get chuffed about pedestrians wanting their lives to work and acting like "Well, if we do anything for you , then my life will fall apart." As if we can only build a world that works for cars or build a world that works for non-drivers and the other camp just has to accept a sucky life an…

Because the topic of this thread is suggesting google should reduce security for everyone. You can't have google letting people back in their account unverified if they ask nicely not affect other people with accounts.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: If I get locked out of everything, please try to help me

#214

Post by bawolff »

jjav wrote: post #206
crooked-v wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution to that is to make the increasingly intrusive security processes an opt in, not to completely write off anyone who can't reliably keep a particular physical device on their person and working indefinitely.

> The solution to that is to make the increasingly intrusive security processes an opt in Absolutely. A common phrase is "mechanism, not policy". The service providers should be enabling all kinds of mechanisms for account level security so users can pick what works best for them. They should absolutely not be imposing any kind of policy. That's where all the source of trouble comes from. Only I know the threat model…

> Only I know the threat models I care about for any particular account I have.

You are not neccesarily the person being negatively effective.

Email service providers are all about reputation so their stuff isn't marked as spam. When your account gets hacked and starts sending viagra ads, you are not the one who suffers the fall out.

There are lots of email providers out there with different policies. One of the reasons gmail is popular is because of these policies.

Re: Ask HN: If I get locked out of everything, please try to help me

#215

Post by Twisell »

katbyte wrote: post #114
DoreenMichele wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having spent nearly six years homeless and also had a college class from SFSU in Homelessness and Public Policy and having written about homelessness for years, I can assure you that for the vast majority of homeless people, losing their physical phone or being unable to pay for it is a much bigger problem than other people wanting to break into their accounts and steal their identity or some such.

for the rest of us having a hacker gain access to our accounts and stealing money or scamming others is a far greater risk. And for google a far more common occurrence. There is a reason there are so many safeguards in place and its because hackers are trying all day every day to break in and steal identities and money. Homeless people don't need to use 2fa if they are so unconcerned with someone stealing their accou…

Were you so harsh on self-entrepreneurs that came here crying out loud because Google did shut down their developer account for some unrelated payement error on a linked account?

I hope so because otherwise you are just discriminating people based on their wealth. But praise lord dollar that if you ever fall from your status you won't find pedantic guys like you when seeking for help.

Re: Ask HN: If I get locked out of everything, please try to help me

#216

Post by UncleMeat »

jrmg wrote: post #50

I have long wondered if two factor authentication actually causes more economic harm than it solves - it just doesn’t cause that harm to be noticeably all in one place (the harm is spread to millions of users who will lose access at some point during their lives rather than concentrated on the company that implements TFA dealing with fraud). It feels like it might. This isn’t counting the productivity that’s lost to…

> I have long wondered if two factor authentication actually causes more economic harm than it solves

At Google at least, there are people who are responsible for measuring this sort of thing. 2FA adoption reduces overall account loss.

Re: Ask HN: If I get locked out of everything, please try to help me

#217

Post by TurkishPoptart »

Hi Doreen,

I hear that. I really loved my last Google Pixel 3, preceded by the Pixel. For some reason it just refused to start up. I couldn't even format it when connected to the PC, it simply died suddenly, without any impact damage. I lost access to Google Authenticator, which I hadn't backed up but actually found the physical paper auth codes I had printed out in case this situation arose, but they didn't work either(!), so I was logged out of Google services for some time, and also lost my 2fa for some accounts to access my paltry spread of crypto junk accounts. I'm sorry and hope you can get decent Google customer service soon.

Re: Ask HN: If I get locked out of everything, please try to help me

#219

Post by Abimelex »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #4

This is my nightmare. This is why I refuse to use 2FA. (Except on services that require it, and I wish they didn't require it.) Am I worried about getting hacked? Absolutely! But when I weigh the likelihood of (1) someone else getting into my account without 2FA and (2) locking myself out of my own account with 2FA, the latter seems much more likely! I understand how backup codes work. I promise you I will loose them…

There are redundancy systems to avoid getting locked out of 2FA.

- 1st Backup Codes: Store a bunch of 2FA backup codes on a safe location, best not in YOUR home, in case it burns down.

- 2nd SMS verification: some services offer you a fallback to SMS in case you don't have your 2FA device with you. But keep in mind, that SMS is also one of the least secure 2FA methods.

- 3rd instead of having your auth codes only on one device, use a service for it like Authy, so you can install it on as much devices as you like, if one dies, it's easy to configure a new one.

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