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You Can Forget About Crypto Now

theatlantic.com

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Re: You Can Forget About Crypto Now

#211

Post by legutierr »

Nursie wrote: post #151
legutierr wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here are three things that are extremely valuable about blockchain technology: * Financial infrastructure that is transparent and does not rely on corporate CEOs being honest: Enron, Lehman Brothers, and now FTX have shown that global regulators cannot be trusted to protect ordinary people when institutions are corrupted from the top. DeFi markets are fully transparent—with code and data being open and replicated tho…

The point made in this article applies to your first point - companies like FTX playing fast and loose can tank your value even if you are playing as your own bank. Not using their custody doesn’t fully protect you from their actions. Cryptocurrency does not settle instantaneously, in fact credit cards are usually faster. Nobody is “waiting” for settlement. The transaction is done very fast. Defi collateralised loans…

> Not using their custody doesn’t fully protect you from their actions.

Sure, but this is market risk, not counter-party risk, and is unmitigated in traditional markets as well. Just look at how Apple stock was affected by Lehman Brothers’ failure.

> Cryptocurrency does not settle instantaneously, in fact credit cards are usually faster.

Come again? If you pay me for goods using crypto, I can spend that money immediately, pending finalization.

> Nobody is “waiting” for settlement. The transaction is done very fast.

Can a merchant spend its customers’ money immediately after running the credit card? No.

Money from a credit card transaction processed on a Friday will hit the merchant’s account on Monday or Tuesday.

> Defi collateralised loans have actually had several instances of losing money and whole schemes failing - ‘whales’ holding illiquid assets have taken out massive loans with no intention of repaying, and the collateral is sometimes only “over” on paper.

OK. Yes, if your underlying collateral is worthless, or if there isn’t a meaningful pricing mechanism or liquid market in which to sell the collateral, automatic liquidation of the loan won’t work, and a different approach must be taken.

Like with anything in the world, there are some basic preconditions required for the thing to work. “This technology is inappropriate for these particular use cases” is not a very strong argument against it.

That being said, I am unaware of these particular cases that you are referring to. If you could point them out to me, I would appreciate it.

Re: You Can Forget About Crypto Now

#212

Post by Tao3300 »

x86x87 wrote: post #205
Tao3300 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ship is sinking so fast I swear I heard the words bubbling by the last paragraph.

Here is a book recommendation for you: Zero to One: Notes on Startups, or How to Build the Future Everyone and their dog hates Thiel nowadays but the ideas in the book ring true more than ever. Here is one of the questions asked in the book: “What important truth do very people agree with you on?” Some people see the potential for crypto and believe in it. Most people think it's a scam. And it may eventually collapse…

Can the book be used as a flotation device?

Re: You Can Forget About Crypto Now

#213

Post by ycombobreaker »

jfengel wrote: post #68
deepsun wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As Robert A. Heinlein put it: "When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force, my friends, is violence. The supreme authority from which all other authorities are derived."

Force is a big part of it, but the flip side is that a vote is also consent to abide by the outcome without force. The force is there, invisible, and most people don't even notice it exists because they consent. That's a delicate illusion and does not survive well when largish minorities declare the social contract void.

The idea that one consents to be governed is reminiscent of the Sovereign Citizen movement. No, you do not need to consent as an individual. Rather, choosing not to vote is an abdication of your responsibility to participate in democracy.

Re: You Can Forget About Crypto Now

#214

Post by phpisthebest »

ycombobreaker wrote: post #213
jfengel wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Force is a big part of it, but the flip side is that a vote is also consent to abide by the outcome without force. The force is there, invisible, and most people don't even notice it exists because they consent. That's a delicate illusion and does not survive well when largish minorities declare the social contract void.

The idea that one consents to be governed is reminiscent of the Sovereign Citizen movement. No, you do not need to consent as an individual. Rather, choosing not to vote is an abdication of your responsibility to participate in democracy.

I agree that the consent narrative is flawed

However so is the "responsibility" narrative. Both are over stating the importance and function of voting. One does not, and can not have a responsibility or obligation to choose between a Giant Douche and a Turd Sandwich [1].

Low participation rate is an indictment of the entire system.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7pfsneLSSM

Re: You Can Forget About Crypto Now

#215

Post by zimbatm »

dragandj wrote: post #78
zimbatm wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever tried sending money abroad? With BTC/ETH/USDC it takes seconds. The whole process is entirely transparent. It doesn't get blocked if you reach some threshold. And the fees are smaller than with the traditional banking system. And unlike with banks, anybody is allowed to open a new wallet. You don't have to get approval, which is difficult if you live in the streets or in a 3rd-world country. I'm not end…

At first I was excited to hear more about the process of “sending money” you had mentioned, but then I read your post, and realized that there weren’t any money involved, but “BTC/ETH/USD”...

How is that not the same thing? If you can reliably exchange it from one to the other?

Re: You Can Forget About Crypto Now

#216

Post by zimbatm »

School-Cotton wrote: post #79
zimbatm wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever tried sending money abroad? With BTC/ETH/USDC it takes seconds. The whole process is entirely transparent. It doesn't get blocked if you reach some threshold. And the fees are smaller than with the traditional banking system. And unlike with banks, anybody is allowed to open a new wallet. You don't have to get approval, which is difficult if you live in the streets or in a 3rd-world country. I'm not end…

Not sure about the others, but it takes a very long time to send Bitcoin (tens of minutes) if you care about waiting for one or more confirming blocks which most people do.

Sure, it's still shorter than days that international bank transfers take. Especially over the weekend.

It doest't replace day-to-day payment but is pretty good for paying invoices.

Re: You Can Forget About Crypto Now

#217

Post by zimbatm »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #88
zimbatm wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever tried sending money abroad? With BTC/ETH/USDC it takes seconds. The whole process is entirely transparent. It doesn't get blocked if you reach some threshold. And the fees are smaller than with the traditional banking system. And unlike with banks, anybody is allowed to open a new wallet. You don't have to get approval, which is difficult if you live in the streets or in a 3rd-world country. I'm not end…

Do the fees include the loss of around two thirds of BTC's value over the last year? Or the mysterious disappearance of literally billions from various exchanges?

That's just sarcastic talk. Both can be true at the same time.

Re: You Can Forget About Crypto Now

#218

Post by super256 »

lottin wrote: post #197
super256 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For me crypto was always Ponzi scheme and nothing more, but it is because I don't laundry money or sell drugs, so I am not the target for crypto. I find Bitcoin very intriguing because unlike TradFi it is not built in debt. Every dollar you have in your account is someone else's debt to you. Which is also the reason Bitcoin gets compared so much to gold! There is a fixed amount of nuggets and no debt is involved. (…

Every dollar that you have is not somebody else's debt. You're completely misinterpreting what a dollar is.

No, you're wrong. The whole money supply is controlled by the Federal Reserve through purchasing and selling securities. When the FED purchases a security, the money gets deposited in the reserves of commercial banks, which then increases the money in circulation through making loans to consumers and businesses. And the mentioned securities are, uhhh, treasuries!

To break it down: If I have 1 dollar in my account, the bank owes me 1 dollar. And this goes all the way up.

Re: You Can Forget About Crypto Now

#219

Post by Vampyre »

MisterSandman wrote: post #164
Vampyre wrote: post #155

A 2018 English graduate, who predominately writes music reviews and opinion pieces, published on The Atlanic which has cherry-picked publishing only their anti-crypto pieces, explains how crypto is actually dead now.

What does the author's degree have to do with anything? He isn't talking about the deep intricacies of how blockchain works, he's talking talking about a financial scamster.

He's talking about this being a significant marker in the potential end of the institutional use of an entire technology.

Re: You Can Forget About Crypto Now

#220

Post by fortran77 »

phpisthebest wrote: post #48
slaw wrote: post #3

> despite the ricketiness of the whole system, despite the constant feeling that everything might fall apart at any moment, there will come a time when crypto really arrives. For me crypto was always Ponzi scheme and nothing more, but it is because I don't laundry money or sell drugs, so I am not the target for crypto.

Ahh the privilege of not living under an authoritarian government combined with the arrogance to believe your government will never turn on you... Crypto is no more of a Ponzi Scheme than Fiat currency is, the big difference is Fiat currency is back by threats of violence (aka government).

> Crypto is no more of a Ponzi Scheme than Fiat currency is, the big difference is Fiat currency is back by threats of violence (aka government).

"Fiat" currency has a lot of people overseeing it, and armies protecting it. I'll take that over SBF any day.

Even with fiat's issues--for example, with a stroke of a pen, Biden can print and confiscate money and transfer it to privileged college borrowers, causing inflation--it still works better. In this case, our court system is slowing the process down

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