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Just don’t

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Re: Just don’t

#211

Post by projektfu »

ketzo wrote: post #140
TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has suffered from migraines for 30 years, I can tell you that everyone just LOVES to tell you ALL the things you're doing wrong to cause them. As though I haven't been to every specialist I can find, and have tried -- literally -- every treatment known to man (except botox, yet).

Oh man, in my experience, migraines in particular are the worst for this because a ton of the common "justs" are actively conflicting "Just cut out caffeine/just try some caffeine when you feel one coming on!" "Just get more exercise/just make sure you're not exerting yourself too hard!" "Just get more sun/just make sure you're wearing sunglasses when you go out!"

Part of the reason why some of these suggestions conflict is because a lot of people with "migraines" have never been diagnosed, and are just complaining about a bad tension headache. Then many people are misdiagnosed. Finally, there are several theories about causes of migraine.

Still, 100% true that people are usually unhelpful with their flippant medical advice.

Re: Just don’t

#212

Post by hamburglar »

mindcrime wrote: post #139
actionablefiber wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I go with "my first impulse is to suggest..." which IMO adds the diplomatic nuance of admitting an incomplete understanding of the problem and/or the person experiencing the problem. You either get a "good suggestion, I'll try that" as a response or you get "you might think it's a good idea but I already considered it and XYZ problems occurred" and you can work from there.

I go with "my first impulse is to suggest..." which IMO adds the diplomatic nuance of admitting an incomplete understanding of the problem and/or the person experiencing the problem. Same here, with a slight variation. I usually say "my first thought is to try ..." or "the first thing that comes to mind for me is ..." Depending on the situation I might also use the old "Have you tried ..." phrasing.

I also like “could you try…” as a way of acknowledging that it’s a suggestion that may be unworkable for reasons I don’t know, and that I’m willing to hear that.

Re: Just don’t

#213

Post by thethetermin »

Wow. Didn't expect to see this banalities supported here on HN. If we believe something is simple, "Just" or "Simply" is fine. It's about the tone and what the person speaking really mean. If the sentence is told in a way that implies that the problem is trivial, and yet the other person is no capable of anything, then it's going to be offensive anyway, regardless of the wording. Leave this stuff to social justice warriors and JUST try to be nice with others.

Re: Just don’t

#214

Post by Aeolun »

derefr wrote: post #189
SnowHill9902 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t recommend this. First of all, you shouldn’t provide personal opinions such as “terrible”. Then, asking what they are going to do forces them to confront the problem which they may not be ready to do yet, or may not want to articulate to you.

Usually in the sort of situation where you'd say this, you're just reflecting the speaker's very-clearly-expressed emotional state back at them to demonstrate that you're actively engaged in listening and considering their statements. It's not something you'd say in response to a text complaint, where there's not enough "bandwidth" to clearly communicate the complainant's emotional state; but it's something CSRs are…

I’m sort of inclined to think that people calling suicide hotlines are probably not that enthusiastic to hop on a video call.

Just reaching out is hard, and you want to be as anonymous as possible.

Re: Just don’t

#215

Post by potta_coffee »

vsareto wrote: post #179
dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not fair to ask people for help and then complain about their word usage when trying to help. This is a situation where solicited advice was asked for. This is not wrong but it's not always useful. Being more kind in your language when giving help will carry your point across more clearly. Consider a junior engineer stressed out by deadlines -- sure, they should listen to you calmly and fix the problem, but it…

I agree with culling 'just' because it rarely adds clarity, but I don't get the emotional impact others are having when they hear it. This blog post is trying to establish that its use definitely means something bad and condescending, but I don't agree with it: >The word “just” is a signal that you’re not taking their problem seriously. It wants to use this (flawed imo) reason to make people feel guilty any time they…

I think the issue is that sometimes the word is "just" filler, and sometimes it's intended to communicate the opinion that the problem is superficial and ought to be easily handled. The meaning is highly dependent on context and who is speaking.

Re: Just don’t

#216

Post by thegrimmest »

Jarwain wrote: post #210
thegrimmest wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd prefer we live in a world where idle complaints are not entertained. If you want advice, complain. If you do not, keep silent.

Venting is a pretty normal and healthy way of dealing with emotions.

And responding to venting with advice/criticism is also (clearly) perfectly normal right?

Re: Just don’t

#217

Post by hamburglar »

fishtoaster wrote: post #176
actionablefiber wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I go with "my first impulse is to suggest..." which IMO adds the diplomatic nuance of admitting an incomplete understanding of the problem and/or the person experiencing the problem. You either get a "good suggestion, I'll try that" as a response or you get "you might think it's a good idea but I already considered it and XYZ problems occurred" and you can work from there.

Oh, I might have to borrow that! I've sometimes used "for my own understanding, is there a reason we're not doing X?"

This one grates on me as insincere-sounding, to be honest. It can sound a bit like a sarcastic way to state the obvious. “Oh, you’re cold? For my understanding — and I may be way off base here — but is there a reason you haven’t closed the fucking window?” (Obvious extreme example of intentional sarcasm)

Re: Just don’t

#218

Post by vaidhy »

eventhorizon77 wrote: post #173
gavinray wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a hard time empathizing with this. I understand the principle, but here's where I come from/my experience: When many of my coworkers message me on Slack for example, they don't just leave me a message asking for what they want, they say "Hey, how are you", or "How was your weekend", or some other silly thing. I know they don't care about the answer to my question. Now, instead of being able to asynchronously a…

This can be a cultural thing. In particular, if I understand correctly, in India it is considered rude not to make small talk before jumping into work. (I'm slightly autistic too but it's not completely useless. I ended up taking a trip to India at one point, and such trips are much easier if you've put in the effort to understand the culture, and your coworkers everyday lives.) I would suggest trying not to be so br…

Coming from India, we do not talk like that in our native language. I am guessing it is because we have been repeatedly told that is how americans talk (reinforced by movies and TV shows). Now, I start with just a greeting and jump to the issue.. "Hey P!! Good morning.. I just want to check about issue XXX". It sounds less rude, but does not ask the banal questions.

Re: Just don’t

#219

Post by Aeolun »

kweinber wrote: post #187
jakelazaroff wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 to this advice. I've heard it as "do you want comfort, or solutions?"

This sounds really patronizing. I would be careful with that phrasing. People who don’t want their problem solved often know the solutions and don’t like the tradeoffs or change they entail. It is often not a knowledge problem.

> This sounds really patronizing.

I think generally the person you’d say this to is already aware how the conversation will go if you don’t clarify beforehand.

Re: Just don’t

#220

Post by jcelerier »

unsupp0rted wrote: post #115
nostromo wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Food for thought: It's quite possible you're not understanding the client well, and are indeed wasting their time. I've worked with contractors where you know what you want and why, but the developer insists on throwing up a lot of objections on how it won't solve the problem for x or y reason. Changing the orientation of a PDF seems like the kind of request that should be straight forward and not require a lot of he…

I changed the orientation of the PDF as requested. This did not add any white space next to line items, since the line items table uses 98 % width either way, unlike when printing from Excel I guess. This is what I tried and failed to get heard yesterday. Also now in Landscape the cover page header takes up like 50% of the page. But hey “just make it landscape”. What the client needs me to do, I suspect without being…

> What the client needs me to do, I suspect without being able to confirm because my questions are “wasting their time”, is give the warehouse a place to pencil stuff in next to line items.

have you thought that maybe this is not the reason at all why they want this ? maybe they have a scanner somewhere that works better with the landscape format ? some regulation to comply with ?

I find it absolutely insufferable when you ask people to do something that you want, and they ask you why ; like, this is not at all why you're being paid unless you're in a R&D position ; if I was in your client's shoes I'd start looking for another contractor that would give me what I ask no question asked. They're paying you for your time, no? If they ask you to dig in a hole and then fill it back after you do it.

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