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Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

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Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#211

Post by NotYourLawyer »

Archelaos wrote: post #20
gnfargbl wrote: post #4

> Less than a week after the plaintiff was fired, the Rijswijk branch of Chetu Inc. was deregistered from the Chamber of Commerce and shut down on 2 September, records show. So, it's a fair assumption that no organisation in the Netherlands is going to pay out as a result of this. What are the chances of the employee being able to enforce this judgment in a Florida court?

There may be another way for the employee to get his money: Provided that the company still has a bank account somewhere in the EU (except Denmark), a creditor can apply that the funds are to be freezed. The debtor does not have to be informed of this in advance. Then a court order can be obtained to be paid out of the freezed funds. See: https://e-justice.europa.eu/379/EN/european_account_preserva...

If they’ve deregistered the company, presumably they drained the accounts too.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#212

Post by phpisthebest »

isodev wrote: post #200
phpisthebest wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know companies have budgets right? you can not just "hire more people" and remain profitable, no profit no company. Companies are not charities created to employ people. So sure if only 1 person is off on leave most likely another person could be hired But 5 years of protected leave..... What percentage of the work force is going to be out on that? Also since it is very hard to terminate someone in the EU, what h…

> Companies are not charities created to employ people. And employees are not charities for their employers! If you can't afford the staff needed for a given task, perhaps you should pivot to something else.

Right you are paid X currency for X labor.

How is paying employees to sit at home not working anything other than charity/

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#213

Post by merely-unlikely »

ghaff wrote: post #134
christophilus wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve never had a background check for any US job I’ve had, other than a government contractor, so this is not universal. I don’t even think it’s normal. Maybe my sample size of 15 or so is just non-representative, though. I don’t tend to apply to the sorts of firms that specialize in bureaucracy.

>I’ve never had a background check for any US job I’ve had How would you know? That said, I suspect I have not as the first one was out of school and the few other jobs I've had were all from people I knew.

I signed a release when the employer did a background check on me. And was provided a copy of it. The latter I think is state law here, the former I think is also law but I’m not 100% sure.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#214

Post by pastage »

Symbiote wrote: post #103
phaer wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All true, but it might be worth mentioning that most of those benefits are still Austrian law, not European law. So while they generally better than the US, other EU states might lack some of those law.

Many countries go further, but the EU does require a minimum. - 4 weeks paid holiday - 4 months unpaid parental leave, 14 weeks paid for the mother https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_labour_law is the best overview I can find.

Must suck being a father and not being able to take leave with your kids. We get 10 days when the baby is born. Plus lots of days until the child is X years, I think 11 years.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#215

Post by merely-unlikely »

Hendrikto wrote: post #92
tinyhouse wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny. Most US companies behave much better than companies outside the US. That's why Romanians looking to be hired by US companies and not vice versa (no attempt to offend you or any other Romanian, just stating a fact). This company sounds like a shitty one, the US of course has those like any other country, but it's usually the US ones that get more publicity when things like this happen.(also when good things hap…

> Most US companies behave much better than companies outside the US. That's why Romanians looking to be hired by US companies No. The reason is compensation.

I personally would take better comp over benefits any day.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#216

Post by tharkun__ »

nibbleshifter wrote: post #186
phpisthebest wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, in most states in the US it would be illegal for an employer to reveal to another employer that the employee was on a PiP, I am surprised that is allowed in the EU with all the privacy laws. The US has lots of anti-black listing laws in almost every state that would make something like that very very illegal

Its also not legal in Germany, in fact, its pretty impossible to legally give a bad reference. HR departments have a workaround though - instead of a bad reference, they will simply confirm that yes, you worked there. Nothing else.

Are reference letters no longer done in Germany?

When I was there that was how this was done. Basically you would always get a reference letter when ending employment. The reference letter's language always sounds good, as in not giving a bad reference. However, a reference letter that states things like "employee X delivered his tasks on time and to the satisfaction of work standards" basically means that he's a slacker that does mediocre work at best. It has to say something like "We are ultimately saddened for employee X leaving because he always delivered his work early and to the highest standard thinkable". These are bad made-up English language examples to show the difference in language but there's basically template language HR departments use for this.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#217

Post by drakonka »

phpisthebest wrote: post #133
geek_at wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European in general. My wife works for a biotech company in Austria which was recently aquired by an american company and it's so funny to hear about their efforts to adapt to EU law and culture. Most of their training material is still unchanged from their US branch so there are things they list as benefits for all employees like - 3 Weeks paid vacation (we get 5 by law) - Health insurance (you know the drill) - 3 w…

>>(we get 1 year for 80% pay, first 6 months full pay, then 5 years protection against dismissal) That is just crazy.... I would hate to be a chidless person in your country, I can not image the extra amount of work that get places on people that do not have children... As someone that will never have a child I like the fact that the US does not force this kind of parental leave on employers, I know that will be very…

I will also not have a child and live in an EU country where parents get a lot of paid parental leave. I think it's great. Why wouldn't I want to work alongside happy, less stressed coworkers who aren't constantly _extra_ sleep and energy deprived from worrying about having to unsustainably juggle work and kids? Companies are well aware of the laws and know they need to staff appropriately. In addition, it is a good thing that parents get to prioritize their children because it makes for well adjusted children for us all to live with as they grow.

As a person without kids I do sometimes wish childfree people got benefits in ways that have more _immediate_ applications for us as well. But that doesn't mean parents shouldn't keep getting generous leave allowances to care for their children.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#218

Post by ghaff »

phpisthebest wrote: post #210
croes wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like paying schools from taxes and never have kids, or paying fire fighters and your house never burns. It's called society.

Well I would prefer they send me a bill directly for fire services monthly, like water instead of having it obfuscated in general taxation. I prefer user fees not taxation. as for schools, to the extent I support their funding (which is more limited than I suspect you do) it is generally ethically justified because I too attended schools paid for by taxation, so in that manner I paying off a debt vs paying for others…

>Well I would prefer they send me a bill directly for fire services monthly, like water instead of having it obfuscated in general taxation. I prefer user fees not taxation.

As is quite common in the US, my fire services (as well as part of education costs--the state also contributes) are paid for out of my quarterly property taxes and my town budget is right up on the website to look at. So it's not really obfuscated. And I don't really want to get 20 different bills from my town rather than a quarterly property tax (and water) bill.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#219

Post by phpisthebest »

Xelynega wrote: post #198
phpisthebest wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well now we are going to get into more unpopular hot takes, because IMO income based taxation is theft.... I do not plain on retiring, and if I did I do not expect government social security (I am in the US) will be there to fund it so I do have a private retirement account that currently the US Monetary policy and government regulations/spending is doing its level best to destroy

> IMO income based taxation is theft.... How could income based taxation be theft unless we're considering all profit theft? Either it's immoral for someone with power over you to demand part of the value you produce or it isn't.

Profit in a market economy is derived from a voluntary exchange of goods/services for currency. I buy a Ribeye because I obtian more value from the Ribeye than I do the $18 in my bank account, However if that ribeye goes to $25 I now value the $25 more than the Ribeye so I dont buy it instead I buy a Chicken Breast.

These are choices I make in a free(ish) market. Companies offer their goods, I choose to buy or not

Similar with labor, I go to the market offer my knowledge and labor for a Wage, if I set my price to high companies will refuse to hire me, if I set my price to low I am missing out on profit.

Income Taxation is in no way voluntary exchange like that, the government with the full authority to initiate violence injects itself with a demand that for every hour of labor I sell I must provide the government with a 10-40% cut of not only my profit from the sell but the gross transaction price. They do so under the threat of violence (aka imprisonment) if I refuse their order.

The fact is that the government, like a common thief, says to a person: Your money, or your life...The government does not, indeed, waylay a person in a lonely place, spring upon him from the road side and, holding a pistol to his head, proceed to rifle his pockets. But the robbery is none the less a robbery on that account; and it is far more dastardly and shameful.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#220

Post by 3np »

nibbleshifter wrote: post #186
phpisthebest wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, in most states in the US it would be illegal for an employer to reveal to another employer that the employee was on a PiP, I am surprised that is allowed in the EU with all the privacy laws. The US has lots of anti-black listing laws in almost every state that would make something like that very very illegal

Its also not legal in Germany, in fact, its pretty impossible to legally give a bad reference. HR departments have a workaround though - instead of a bad reference, they will simply confirm that yes, you worked there. Nothing else.

So I guess anyone working at a German company will want to make really sure their HR department is in on this before leaving :p
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