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Ask HN: 10k hours rule to master anything. Could I switch career when I am 43?

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Re: Ask HN: 10k hours rule to master anything. Could I switch career when I am 43?

#211

The Gladwell book is so bad it's laughable. It's a gross misrepresentation of the work of Anders Ericsson, with completely unfounded extrapolations. So bad it prompted Ericsson to get a non-academic writer to work with him to write his own popular science version of his work, which is titled "Peak". Outliers is the worst example I know of of popular authors bending facts to make a narrative they want to tell. In a nu…

> (ie the Beatles example is complete bullshit, gigs are not practice) Why doesn't that count as practice?

I studied a number of books in that field last year, and much of this entire thread is missing some key points.

The learning psychology field often differentiates practice from deliberate practice, where practice is just about anything and deliberate practice is focused learning.

In deliberate practice, you have to work at near your skill level, you need to apply proven learning methods, it should take maximal effort, you need a feedback mechanism to course correct, etc. A great deal of focus goes into creating effective mental models and intentionally removing ineffective mental models. It requires good coaching. As you progress in expertise, your practice should involve more risks and failures. (And there's still much more to be said here)

Gigging and noodling aren't going to make for efficient practice as it likely won't be full concentration, won't involve feedback, won't involve challenging material at your skill level, etc.

Also, you can spend 10,000 hours jamming alone in your bedroom on same set of guitar tabs and make shockingly progress compared to someone who spends just a few hundred hours intensely studying music books with a metronome and tape recorder.

Re: Ask HN: 10k hours rule to master anything. Could I switch career when I am 43?

#213

Just do it. I'm planning to switch jobs from Software Engineer to General Contractor, just working on saving up capital for heavy equipment and materials. I took a great training course and now just have to pass the licensing exam. If your passion changes, just change fields, life is short.

I think this comment gets to the essence better than anything else: passion.

Something is going to need to motivate you through the process of learning, failing, and growing in a new field. If your motivation is primarily based in getting away from what you are doing now then I suspect you have a difficult road ahead regardless of whether you change or not.

But if you have some kind of passion about what you'd like to be doing instead then you've got the most valuable compass and sail you can ask for.

Re: Ask HN: 10k hours rule to master anything. Could I switch career when I am 43?

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I need 500g of flour to make bread. That doesn't mean I can make bread with just 500g of flour. You are trying to say that someone claiming 500g being necessary to making bread is hogwash because it doesn't also talk about the salt and water (etc).

I didn't mention any baking concepts. I quoted Malcolm Gladwell -- who was the originator of the "10,000 hours" rule (remark?) in popular culture.

Let me spell out the analogy:

Gladwell says you need practice 10,000 hours. In my analogy of the situation, I claim I need 500g of flour.

You complain that there may be other things needed in addition to practice therefore the need for practice is bullshit. This is analogized by "you" saying that the need for other ingredients in bread somehow invalidates that the flour is needed.

The point I'm trying to make is this: Stating that something is necessary but not sufficient, does not invalidate claims about what is necessary. In the quotes, I saw no claim that only 10k hours of practice was required, just that they were necessary.

Re: Ask HN: 10k hours rule to master anything. Could I switch career when I am 43?

#216
It doesn't take 10000 to become good enough at something to work in it. A couple of hundred hours is often enough.

If you want to work as a programmer, management consultant, business developer or similar that is. Becoming first violin does take tens of thousands of hours.

Re: Ask HN: 10k hours rule to master anything. Could I switch career when I am 43?

#217

The Gladwell book is so bad it's laughable. It's a gross misrepresentation of the work of Anders Ericsson, with completely unfounded extrapolations. So bad it prompted Ericsson to get a non-academic writer to work with him to write his own popular science version of his work, which is titled "Peak". Outliers is the worst example I know of of popular authors bending facts to make a narrative they want to tell. In a nu…

Here's Gladwell himself: There is a lot of confusion about the 10,000 rule that I talk about in Outliers. Practice isn't a SUFFICIENT condition for success. I could play chess for 100 years and I'll never be a grandmaster. The point is simply that natural ability requires a huge investment of time in order to be made manifest. Unfortunately, sometimes complex ideas get oversimplified in translation. I don't get why p…

The guy is a walking TED talk. I don't hate him, but he's supremely annoying in his smug triteness.

Re: Ask HN: 10k hours rule to master anything. Could I switch career when I am 43?

#218
10,000 hours may be a vague rule of thumb, but it says nothing about what is going on, and it's not just a matter of practicing. Learning, knowledge, wisdom, etc. all come from neural growth over time - your brain responds to thinking/concentrating/practicing by growing in the areas of the brain that were used, and this growth accumulates over time. Even in much older people the brain is plastic and is producing new neurons in addition to growing existing synapses, albeit at a gradually slowing pace. A corollary to this is, don't expect to understand things immediately - keep working at new concepts and skills. If you persevere, over time you will understand them and become proficient.

It's important to note that "practice" can't be something like, for example, simply taking tennis lessons - you must be challenged and struggle for it to have an impact. I would also include desire as being essential - it must be something you truly want to do, not something you just go through the motions for. Also consider that your physical health, regular exercise, diet and quality of sleep are intimately tied to cognitive growth.

Re: Ask HN: 10k hours rule to master anything. Could I switch career when I am 43?

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I need 500g of flour to make bread. That doesn't mean I can make bread with just 500g of flour. You are trying to say that someone claiming 500g being necessary to making bread is hogwash because it doesn't also talk about the salt and water (etc).

I didn't mention any baking concepts. I quoted Malcolm Gladwell -- who was the originator of the "10,000 hours" rule (remark?) in popular culture.

Don't get hung up on the number. I've always taken Gladwell's writing to mean lots of deliberate practice (on the order of a decade) is necessary, but maybe not sufficient, to master something difficult.

Re: Ask HN: 10k hours rule to master anything. Could I switch career when I am 43?

#220
Gladwell biased his measurement to experts in their field, did he not? 20 hours can be enough in many things to get started, 150 hours decent enough to begin to command income from those efforts, and if it is pleasurable to you and provides value to others, the road goes up from there in a positive feedback loop.

That has been my experience. Consider giving it a go!

Edit: I wish to add the paraphrased concept: Don't let perfectionism be the enemy of done/accomplished... Another lesson I am working on :)

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