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Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

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Re: Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

#211

Post by martin_a »

mFixman wrote: post #145
martin_a wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Metaverse could be the next big thing and the long shot facebook needs. I'm skeptical. With all their money and knowledge and whatnot, they've only managed to create something that looks like a dated console party game but not more. I don't see how that's the future. Furthermore, do they expect everyone to buy a... say... $400 headset to use the Metaverse? The low entry barrier was probably one of the biggest reaso…

The headset is the reason why they are doing this in the first place. Nobody expected people to buy a $300 iPhone in 2007 or a $500 iPad in 2011, but when they did they gave Apple money-printing machine that can also bankrupt competitors. Meta just needs a killer feature for the Metaverse. During the pandemic they bet hard on office-by-VR, but they moved too slowly missed the pandemic and many other deadlines before…

You're mixing things up.

Nobody bought an iPhone or iPad because of Facebook. You could also install the Facebook app on that, but you could also use your notebook or your desktop pc or your cheap Android phone or whatnot to use Facebook. Most people already had some "Facebook ready" device at home.

Nobody will buy an Oculus headset if its main/sole use is the Metaverse.

Re: Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

#212

Post by afpx »

thrwawayacc wrote: post #12

amazon manager here: it's the same with us. our director gave told us to manage out more people this year to hit our revised headcount targets for next year. there are no layoffs, just larger-than-normal targets for managing out people. I talked with friends across various orgs and the targets seem to range between 10% to 25% for different teams (as opposed to 5% for normal years).

Yet, Amazon has over 13,000 open tech positions:

https://www.amazon.jobs/en/landing_pages/tech-roles

Re: Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

#213

Post by oblio »

marban wrote: post #179
pembrook wrote: post #172

It’s crazy to me how Facebook has so many employees when their entire business is basically managing 3 software products (Facebook, instagram and the advertising platform). Meanwhile I think Apple has about the same number of employees if you subtract the retail Apple store workers. Yet, Apple’s business is comprised of managing, and this is only a rough guess: - 30+ hardware products and their supply chain, marketin…

Adobe, on the other hand, with its ~26k headcount is juggling an astonishing range of products and services it seems.

Adobe's the most forgotten and ignored tech company that actually makes staple software products and services, I think.

No matter how much people hate their price gouging :-)

Re: Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

#214

Post by oblio »

cjrp wrote: post #184
sam1r wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re forgetting that they also own WhatsApp, the primary mode of communication for several countries.

I know it's grown since the acquisition, but how many people were involved in developing and running the service pre-Facebook?

Do you think a large entreprise that actually needs to follow legislation in 100+ countries can work the same way a startup can, though?

Re: Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

#215

Post by crims0n »

ferdek wrote: post #129
randomsearch wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s like music. Most bands are capable of a great album, but the truly incredible artists can move from genre to genre constantly reinventing themselves. To create an org that can do the latter (hello, Apple) seems incredible difficult, but it always seems to involve exceptionally creative leaders. So the secret I think is to sell you mega status Facebook Borg and start afresh in a different area without the baggage…

> can move from genre to genre constantly reinventing themselves Sounds a little bit like Nokia, more than Apple. Paper mill, cable products, rubber boots, tires, TV, mobile phones... ;)

Don't forget firewalls!

Re: Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

#216

Post by oblio »

aikinai wrote: post #202
hfbff wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you in the USA? iMessage is only really relevant in the USA. Meanwhile, Whatsapp is huge in Latin America, Europe, Africa, parts of Asia

Popularity doesn’t have any affect on how many people you need to build it.

Oh, so that's why we have millions of blog articles about how to scale software and software organizations?

Because software used by 10k people needs as many features and infrastructure care and investment as one used by 3 billion people?

Re: Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

#217

Post by mFixman »

martin_a wrote: post #211
mFixman wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The headset is the reason why they are doing this in the first place. Nobody expected people to buy a $300 iPhone in 2007 or a $500 iPad in 2011, but when they did they gave Apple money-printing machine that can also bankrupt competitors. Meta just needs a killer feature for the Metaverse. During the pandemic they bet hard on office-by-VR, but they moved too slowly missed the pandemic and many other deadlines before…

You're mixing things up. Nobody bought an iPhone or iPad because of Facebook. You could also install the Facebook app on that, but you could also use your notebook or your desktop pc or your cheap Android phone or whatnot to use Facebook. Most people already had some "Facebook ready" device at home. Nobody will buy an Oculus headset if its main/sole use is the Metaverse.

Sure, but almost nobody uses Facebook on their PCs anymore. Most Meta's users and revenues come from smartphones, which have an ecosystem controlled by Apple or Google.

Zuck is betting that more people will use VR in the future, and if you believe that hypothesis then it makes sense to invest infinite money in making sure your company becomes the Apple of VR instead of the Nokia.

How wisely that infinite VR money is being spent is another matter.

Re: Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

#218

Post by oblio »

joenot443 wrote: post #196
votepaunchy wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do I understand correctly, you are saying that 5-20% of your employees will quit after having a conversation simply noting that he or she will not be receiving a bonus or raise this year, or similar? That’s really quite tenuous, especially in this economy.

As a minor anecdote, I'm a FAANG SWE and if I was told I wouldn't be receiving a raise OR bonus this year, I'd absolutely start looking for other work. Most FAANG employees get recruiters reaching out daily, the thought of greener pastures is always on their mind.

Not if the well dries up because all those companies start firing thousands of people.

Re: Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

#219

Post by marcus_holmes »

SilverBirch wrote: post #132
rusk wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Manage out” sounds suspiciously like “constructive dismissal” to me. Not only unethical but illegal to varying degrees across many jurisdictions. Could get pricey!

There's a massive difference between constructive dismissal and managing out. Managing out can often be as simple as a manager saying "Hey, your performance isn't great your not on course to get any bonus or raise this year" and the employee deciding "Fuck this, I'm off". Instead of in normal times, where you're trying to retain people and the conversation is often "Hey, you're making really good progress but there's…

Not giving a bonus can be grounds for a constructive dismissal claim (at least in the UK):

https://employmenttribunal.claims/employment-law/bonus-dispu...

Re: Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

#220

Post by marban »

oblio wrote: post #213
marban wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adobe, on the other hand, with its ~26k headcount is juggling an astonishing range of products and services it seems.

Adobe's the most forgotten and ignored tech company that actually makes staple software products and services, I think. No matter how much people hate their price gouging :-)

Will get better when Scott Belsky takes over.
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