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Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

reuters.com

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Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#211

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

detaro wrote: post #196
LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Didn't look for that. But I have to wonder why? At least with uBO nothing suspicious on that site. It looks just 'normal'? Does it always have to be https://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/map/?extent=55.61249... ? It doesn't even show up there, because below 2.5 on the Richter scale.

> But I have to wonder why? No idea, certainly the HN spam filter isn't perfect. You can mail the mods and ask about/ask for it to be unbanned, in my experience they appreciate people reporting false positives to them.

I've been lazy and just clicked vouch.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#212

Post by hansjorg »

koheripbal wrote: post #200
Markoff wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well clear winner of current sitaution is US, clear loser is Europe/EU and Russia is somewhere in between, but they can sell their gas elsewhere, so what would be point sabotaging own business (though it could be false flag attack).

No, the winner here is clearly Russia. They wanted to cut the line to pressure the EU into pressuring Ukraine to agree to a ceasefire along existing battle lines. Cutting production through an "accident" allows them plausible deniability to cut Europe's gas supplies without formally violating the contract and for restoration negotiations if the Ukraine question is settled.

They already had created an "accident" and the gas in Nord Stream 1 was shut off since 31st of August.

Even if that wasn't enough, why would they choose to damage the lines this severely (flooding them with sea water)?

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#213

Post by Markoff »

q-base wrote: post #48
Joeri wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gas prices were dropping, half what they were at the peak. Putin wants gas prices to remain high to punish the EU and increase his own revenues. Since this incident they’re climbing back up. There are other ways for russia to export the gas than nordstream 1. He may think he can force an opening of nordstream 2. Putin has made so many errors in judgment that no strategy is too insane to be considered reasonable in hi…

Nordstream 2 is also hit. Otherwise an interesting thought.

Yamal/Brotherhood are fine, so this doesn't really change anything.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#216

Post by foverzar »

XorNot wrote: post #16
988747 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putin, because he gets an excuse to cut Germany off of Russian gas. It's game of chicken now: the West sends weapons to help Ukrainian army chase off all the Russian invaders, and Putin tries to make energy crisis in EU so severe that Europe is forced to negotiate with him, and accept Russian conquest of parts of the Ukraine. Whoever can stay on their course longer wins.

No pipelines means no Russian gas period. Putin loses because even if he wanted to, he can't send gas anymore. I've been hoping from the start that someone would sabotage the pipelines to remove the temptation. Guess I got my wish.

The main source of Russian gas in Europe was (and presently is) the Soviet pipeline system running through Ukraine.

So basically Europe will still continue to receive a huge fraction of Russian gas, but it would all run essentially through a war zone.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#217

Post by IAmGraydon »

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #112
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, russia controls "the valve", so it doesn't need to destroy the pipelines, and the minute EU (well, mostly germany) decides to negiotiate, putin can open the valve. With this, even if they negotiate, there won't be any gas soon. So, it's bad for russia, bad for eu, and the only one being better of is USA... who was threathened to do exactly this more than once. https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1490792461979078662

cool. lets see the world now decide how they will play it, i mean here is prior deliberations and intent and we saw today the action itself so if USA is behind this which they most probably are, how will EU for example respond to this aggression? I hope the same response viz a viz sanctions, trade barriers, this and that.????

It would be exactly like Russia to do something like this in order to drive a wedge between the US and EU. Look for something Biden said that could be misconstrued as a threat to blow up the pipeline, actually blow it up, and then watch the world blame the US.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#218

Post by timbit42 »

serpix wrote: post #203
sudden_dystopia wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait until it gets cold and peoples resolves actually get tested. Those protests would turn into people begging to turn the gas on. If you don’t live in a place that actually has winter, you just won’t understand. I lived all summer without a/c, it was fine with the occasional cold shower. But no heat is absolutely miserable and deadly in a real winter.

Most mainland European gas reserves are full, there will be no freezing in Europe this winter.

Germany's reserves aren't enough to last a winter.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#219

Post by IAmGraydon »

jansan wrote: post #12
IAmGraydon wrote: post #4

Who would benefit from this?

Directly alternative suppliers of gas will benefit, because reopening the pipelines is not an option anymore. Indirectly anyone who is interested in causing mistrust among western countries.

>Indirectly anyone who is interested in causing mistrust among western countries.

My gut tells me this is the most likely answer. It would be a very Russian thing to do.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#220

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #104
jeltz wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but Germany turning on NS2 is about as likely to happen as the US is to give in to Russian demands to stop sending arms to Ukraine. I cannot see any scenario where that happens so anyone sabotaging the pipelines just makes things unnecessarily complicated for no reason.

Honestly.. a few really cold days in germany, people get pissed and go out to the streets, and a lot can happen. It's one thing to watch the tv and get angry at stuff, while you're still well fed and in a warm home... once you're not, the shit gets real

But our EUR9 tickets are gone, so no free access to the revolution trains anymore.
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