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Ask HN: Do you regret being a generalist?

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Re: Ask HN: Do you regret being a generalist?

#211

Post by deltasevennine »

woutr_be wrote: post #210
deltasevennine wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason why technical people look down on full stack engineers is because they are usually just web developers. Web development is one of the easiest and over saturated areas of software development. That is not to say web development is easy, it's just "easiest." It's hard for a full stack engineer to see or admit to this because of bias, it's much easier for someone outside of web development to see it, or a mor…

> The reason why technical people look down on full stack engineers is because they are usually just web developers. To give some context here, yes, when people refer to full stack developers, they're usually referring to developers who are focused on web development, but that would also include API development, or even mobile development. I don't think anyone thinks of full stack developers, as developers who know e…

>I don't think anyone thinks of full stack developers, as developers who know embedded development or compiler development, so I don't know anyone who looks down on them for not knowing these things.

Yes, I'm referring to technical people who are specialists outside of "web development".

>Now obviously, the way that you put it, it's extremely difficult to say why you're wrong, because you've started by adding a bias to people who would defend it. So maybe, when you want to have a discussion about it, don't start by stating something that makes it extremely difficult to argue against it without being seen as having a bias.

Why would i want to be told I'm wrong? People offer arguments in the belief that they are bullet proof so it's natural to say things that are harder to argue against.

If you're a full stack engineer this excludes you from answering because you may be biased. I can empathize with how you feel. I guess there's two things you can consider here. Consider that you are biased and that the statement is correct. Consider that I, the person who posed the statement, is biased and wait for a programmer outside of web development who has experience working with "full stack web engineers" to respond with his own opinion.

You would be biased not to consider the possibility that I am right, so strive to be unbiased.

Re: Ask HN: Do you regret being a generalist?

#212

Post by sngz »

tremon wrote: post #152
micahbule wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Specialized technical people often look down on supposed fullstack engineers because specialized technical people value mastery over familiarity -- something a lot of FS engineers really try to be exaggeratingly proud of. While familiarity with your stack is great for cross-cutting concerns, mastery is what truly builds great software, not to mention in a timely manner. Managers are excited about FS engineers simply…

That's funny, because as a generalist I tend to look down on single-purpose developers. Way too often they don't know anything about the rest of the system they're interfacing with and produce locally optimal but globally inferior solutions. My main gripes include frontend developers that don't understand HTTP and backend developers that don't understand SQL. And besides, where does your notion of "full stack" begin?…

this so much. Can't count the number of times I've been ignored after warning others about things that will happen down the line cause I don't just throw the pig over the wall to the testers and ops guys and consider the job done. I'm usually able to see problems that will pop up later down the line since I've done the code writing, and the testing, and setup the CI/CD process, all the security hardening and STIGs, and after they ignore me I tend to be the one helping them fix it.

When I interview for jobs they always ask very specialized questions. Everyone wants a generalist but refuse to interview them or pay them like one.

Re: Ask HN: Do you regret being a generalist?

#213

Post by sngz »

yes and no. I really enjoy what I do and the skillets I have make me very flexible when it comes to solving all kinds of problems. But finding a job that values you as a generalist and pays well and interviews you like a generalist has been near impossible for me.

Re: Ask HN: Do you regret being a generalist?

#214

Post by nonameiguess »

Nope.

I'm in my 40s, and have held jobs as a Disneyland stage performer, nonprofit manager, bar manager, US Army officer commanding tanks, doing machine learning development for a hedge fund, ground processing algorithms for spy satellite collections, CI/CD orchestration services for a platform provider serving hundreds of geointelligence developer groups, and have spent most of the past decade working the infrastructure layer for various Air Force software factories, currently being employed by a vendor of Kubernetes cluster management software.

I've got degrees in biology, philosophy, applied mathematics, finance, public policy, computer science, and information security.

I've competed at various levels in cross-country running, track and field, volleyball, basketball, soccer, have through-hiked roughly a quarter of the Pacific Crest Trail, have open-water swam over 5k, and currently lift weights 6 days a week.

This is just me. I absolutely love to learn, to be exposed to things I've never done before, to show rapid improvement in something. As soon as I get too specialized and familiar, I get bored. I'm sure I just threw up a bunch of red flags to HR and engineering manager types concerned that if they hire me, I'll just leave, but the reality is over half the people they hire are going to leave in the next year anyway. Maybe I'm earning a bit less than someone who specialized in some obscure lucrative sub-field of software development that happened to take off in the past decade, but I'm still earning more than 95% of all Americans, more than I ever reasonably expected given my family background, I'm healthy and attractive, have a beautiful wife in a loving, fulfilling marriage, get to live in a time of peace and prosperity in which I can work from home at whatever hours I please, it's sunny and warm nearly every day. I'm as blessed as a person has ever been.

On top of that, I know a ton, have a passing familiarity with nearly any topic, have met and talked to people from every imaginable walk of life. I've got a broad perspective that keeps me out of the pits of despair and solipsism you see people falling into when their impression of the world outside of their tiny little corner of specialization comes entirely from news headlines. Having tried so many things and not being the absolute best at them, seeing the challenges they present and that the people doing them do, in fact, know what they're doing, I don't have the expert scope creep you see from so many engineers who believe everyone else doing anything else is stupid and all problems would be solved if we just put engineers in charge of everything.

Hell no, I don't regret it.

Re: Ask HN: Do you regret being a generalist?

#215

Post by jdmg94 »

tremon wrote: post #152
micahbule wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Specialized technical people often look down on supposed fullstack engineers because specialized technical people value mastery over familiarity -- something a lot of FS engineers really try to be exaggeratingly proud of. While familiarity with your stack is great for cross-cutting concerns, mastery is what truly builds great software, not to mention in a timely manner. Managers are excited about FS engineers simply…

That's funny, because as a generalist I tend to look down on single-purpose developers. Way too often they don't know anything about the rest of the system they're interfacing with and produce locally optimal but globally inferior solutions. My main gripes include frontend developers that don't understand HTTP and backend developers that don't understand SQL. And besides, where does your notion of "full stack" begin?…

I agree with the notion that "full stack" means different things for everyone but there's a difference between a specialist and someone who only knows html/css. I've normalized relational dbs, made REST and GraphQL APIs but I specialize in making the frontend applications (web/ios/android/etc). I can wear all the hats on my side projects but they're not gonna pay me double for working the whole stack

Re: Ask HN: Do you regret being a generalist?

#216

Post by cosmodisk »

bluGill wrote: post #185
agotterer wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This advice should also translate to your resume/LinkedIn. If you list a piece of technology on your resume you should know that it’s fair game for people to ask question about it during interviews and for your resume to match on those keywords. I see so many resumes with massive lists of technology exposure. I assume the intention is to demonstrate the breadth of experience. But if you don’t want to work in that lan…

We passed on someone because the resume listed SQL, but that person couldn't answer a basic query question. This person was finishing their degree in a few months and we figured first real interview and wanted an easy question to build confidence before the interview started. The job itself wouldn't use SQL so not having it wouldn't been any negative, but claiming it and not being able to talk about it means you are…

I had someone interviewing for a us a couple of years ago. It wasn't a tech role but we were very clear that if he would want, we'll transition him gradually in the next year or so+ all the support he'd need. I go through his CV and I see 2 years of experience in Java. Oh nice, but very unlikely to be truth. So I ask if he really has two years of experience. He didn't. We ended up giving him a job,but he had zero interest in transitioning into a tech position.

Re: Ask HN: Do you regret being a generalist?

#217

Post by ryandrake »

To me, being a generalist means having the ability to pivot from one specialty to another, as the market changes. I made a few early "bets" in my career: Linux (foundational), C++ (foundational), OpenGL (specialist). Obviously, the choice to specialize in OpenGL didn't stand the test of time, but I had a solid foundation of Linux / C++ to build upon. When I started working for a company that combined C++ and OpenGL with GPS/mapping software, I was able to pivot into GPS and mapping, which carried me through the rest of my career.

If I instead doubled down and tried to become the world's foremost expert in a (now mostly) dead technology, my career probably would have turned out differently.

Re: Ask HN: Do you regret being a generalist?

#218

Post by b112 »

tinco wrote: post #140
b112 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a generalist, you've not only got my goat, you just took it to town and got it drunk. This sort of over reasoning is part of what bugs me about this industry. Many devs change jobs at the drop of a hat, turnover is already high. Yet here you are, worried about job retention, trying to second guess what a dev knows about their own happiness. I know you mean well, both for the org, and the person, but what makes you…

Over reasoning? Because I ask a developer what they want to work on during an interview? Guess what, turnover is high when your developers are unhappy with the work they're doing. I've had developers do work that they didn't like to do, and they quit, so now I make sure they're gonna be happy where I want them. I'm not second guessing anything, in fact my comment says the exact opposite. If a developer reworks their…

Well, rereading your original comment again, I see the second paragraph could be taken in the way you mean in your reply.

I think paragraph 1 and 3, sandwiched around 2, created an effect of negation.

So thanks for the clarification, and thanks for returning my goat.

Re: Ask HN: Do you regret being a generalist?

#220

Post by eimrine »

Kaibeezy wrote: post #99
paulcole wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side, that’s a 50-year old quote and maybe times have changed?

I’d add: - write an effective contract and be able to tell if one that someone hands you is reasonable - be able to explain to people you feel some responsibility towards how to install and operate a VPN - have a grip on basic statistics and economics - cook a tasty meal from grains, legumes, vegetables and/or fungi

Vegeterian?
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