Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Increase: Banking API

increase.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 305 posts

Re: Increase: Banking API

#211

Post by pbreit »

londons_explore wrote: post #92
JohnFen wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You know what makes money laundering super easy... a banking API so you can split the million dollars you want to launder into 1 million 1 dollar payments. That would be noticed. It's called "structuring" and is itself illegal. Banks watch for this stuff.

Yes, but when your script splits money into random amounts and puts things like "pizza money", "rent" and "happy birthday" into the reference field, across thousands of accounts, most of whom also have a real user doing real transactions intermingled, suddenly it gets a lot harder for the bank to filter. The bank typically has a rather simplistic set of rules to decide to investigate transactions (because they need t…

How is one even opening a dozen accounts, much less thousands?

Re: Increase: Banking API

#212

Post by yellowapple »

londons_explore wrote: post #92
JohnFen wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You know what makes money laundering super easy... a banking API so you can split the million dollars you want to launder into 1 million 1 dollar payments. That would be noticed. It's called "structuring" and is itself illegal. Banks watch for this stuff.

Yes, but when your script splits money into random amounts and puts things like "pizza money", "rent" and "happy birthday" into the reference field, across thousands of accounts, most of whom also have a real user doing real transactions intermingled, suddenly it gets a lot harder for the bank to filter. The bank typically has a rather simplistic set of rules to decide to investigate transactions (because they need t…

This is why every time I send money via Venmo I label it "drugs" (or a specific drug, like "pure Colombian cocaine" or "crystal meth").

Re: Increase: Banking API

#213

Post by yellowapple »

MalcolmDwyer wrote: post #135
b8ZLPMRFnnfID4M wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's silly. You could just as easily to the same thing with checks, or even cards.

Millions of checks or millions of cards is "just as easy" as millions of API calls?

Given enough printers, sure.

Re: Increase: Banking API

#214

Post by icy »

lisper wrote: post #169
mike_d wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. This is why every attempt to provide developers better access to banking/finance is doomed to fail. Even if you buy your own bank charter, you are still subject to someone elses rules. Your customers want to be innovative and do things they can't easily do today. On the other side is your financial network that has shut down the three previous attempts to do that exact thing because it causes a random transactio…

I'm am often amazed that the entire world financial system hasn't collapsed yet, considering what I now know about how it is put together.

> considering what I now know about how it is put together

As someone who doesn't, I'd love to hear more.

Re: Increase: Banking API

#215

Post by csomar »

hattmall wrote: post #209
londons_explore wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but when your script splits money into random amounts and puts things like "pizza money", "rent" and "happy birthday" into the reference field, across thousands of accounts, most of whom also have a real user doing real transactions intermingled, suddenly it gets a lot harder for the bank to filter. The bank typically has a rather simplistic set of rules to decide to investigate transactions (because they need t…

I still don't understand how this facilitates money laundering? You send small amounts to a bunch of accounts and then what exactly? What is the source of the funds to launder and how/why is it already in the bank?

I don't think OP knows what he is talking about? You also need "thousands" of accounts, and unless you are opening these remotely, I don't know how you can get this many people to co-operate with your scheme. That also doesn't cover the first part: Laundering the money into the bank. (if the money is already in the banking system, there is nothing to launder).

To be honest, I don't think money laundering is real, or significant. I see most money laundering rules as hidden or mislabeled sanctions on other countries, group of individuals or institutions.

Re: Increase: Banking API

#216

Post by jonathanyc »

spydum wrote: post #111
londons_explore wrote: post #71

I made an API for a bank... I was a third party and made the API by screen scraping their webUI. I sent their devs a link and initially there were positive messages going back and forth. The API allowed you to see balance, transaction history, and make payments. Before long, the API got quite popular, and lots of people were using it to make lots of payments automatically. You know what makes money laundering super e…

so, treasury management systems exist for big corps (FIS, FIServe, GTreasury, etc), and some banks do have legit apis for cash flow mgmt (payments transfers etc). i think problem is most dont want the hassle of supporting it for consumers.

> some banks do have legit apis for cash flow mgmt (payments transfers etc)

I'm interested in learning more about this. Do you have an example of a bank with a cash flow management API I could take a look at?

Re: Increase: Banking API

#217

Post by kebman »

mike_d wrote: post #158
lisper wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, you got off easy. I spent six years of actual work learning this lesson the hard way back in 2006-2012. In retrospect, I should have paid a lot more attention when Patric Collison told me he was spending his days reading up banking regulations. Eh, too boring, I thought, what could possibly be in there that a little code couldn't paper over? That mistake cost me the opportunity to be an early hire at Stripe.

Yup. This is why every attempt to provide developers better access to banking/finance is doomed to fail. Even if you buy your own bank charter, you are still subject to someone elses rules. Your customers want to be innovative and do things they can't easily do today. On the other side is your financial network that has shut down the three previous attempts to do that exact thing because it causes a random transactio…

Almost no rules within crypto, if you want to experiment. It's one of the selling points of the scene. OTOH regulation is slowly but steadily making its way over there as well.

Re: Increase: Banking API

#218

Post by oogetyboogety »

jonathanyc wrote: post #216
spydum wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so, treasury management systems exist for big corps (FIS, FIServe, GTreasury, etc), and some banks do have legit apis for cash flow mgmt (payments transfers etc). i think problem is most dont want the hassle of supporting it for consumers.

> some banks do have legit apis for cash flow mgmt (payments transfers etc) I'm interested in learning more about this. Do you have an example of a bank with a cash flow management API I could take a look at?

Theres quite a few examples, it's a space where banks are trying to hold ground against fintechs, or they'll be forced to partner with them

One example i can think of right off the top of my head: INTEGRATIONS Integrate Increase APIs Modern Treasury’s powerful REST API is the easiest way to integrate your Increase bank accounts with your application for payments, reconciliation and reporting. https://www.moderntreasury.com/integrations

And

"Improve Cash Flow

Managing cash flow requires looking at receivables and payables, accessing liquidity and making accurate forecasts. Cash management APIs improve every facet of the treasury operations." https://www.chase.ca/en/support/insights/six-ways-payment-ap....

Re: Increase: Banking API

#219

Post by kebman »

lisper wrote: post #173
jrockway wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess credit and undos smooth over most of the problems.

Yes, that certainly helps a lot, but I'm pretty sure that would crumble under certain not-terribly-difficult-to-execute attacks. The happy fact of the matter is that the vast majority of actors in the economy seem to be pretty well-behaved. The scary thing is that the system seems to depend on this.

It's because of mutually assured destruction. It's the same reason why there's a tacit agreement between enemy heads of state to not just assassinate each other. Doing so would just start a new world order that wouldn't be in anyone's interest. Sort of like nuking an enemy isn't a good idea either because of the retaliatory consequences it would necessarily cause.

Re: Increase: Banking API

#220

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

londons_explore wrote: post #71

I made an API for a bank... I was a third party and made the API by screen scraping their webUI. I sent their devs a link and initially there were positive messages going back and forth. The API allowed you to see balance, transaction history, and make payments. Before long, the API got quite popular, and lots of people were using it to make lots of payments automatically. You know what makes money laundering super e…

1 million 1 dollar payments to who? arent your recipients also KYC'd so whats the problem?

i mean i am talking from an indian POV where every banking customer is KYC approved from the get-go. you send someone money or receive money, there is a proper trail to their identities.

Post reply on HN