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Plastic might be making us obese

washingtonpost.com

211–220 of 392 posts

Re: Plastic might be making us obese

#211

Is it the plastic though, or is it the sugar? Over my last few years of reading, I've convinced myself that sugar is the main culprit in massive obesity in Western countries, especially the US (i.e. high fructose corn syrup). Sugar is in everything (like plastic, I suppose). Look at the ingredients of what you buy and you'll be surprised where it turns up. Peanut butter, mayonnaise, beef jerky, even bog standard brea…

Timeline doesn't work out, really. People ate a lot of sugar before the 80s and 90s where the obesity epidemic took off. Timeline points more to plastic and/or lithium, as suggested by Slime Mold Time Mold.

Sugar is pretty bad for you, though.

Re: Plastic might be making us obese

#212

I am very skeptical the effect would be meaningful relative to diet/exercise. We have never been more seditary, and sugar has never been more a part of our diet. When my mother moved in and we started going on daily walks, she lost a pound a week for one year. When she injured her foot and stopped, with no diet change throughout the entire time, she gained it all back in a couple months. I would be surprised if peopl…

The problem with “calories in - calories out = weight gained” is that even though it is of course true (thermodynamics), it explains nothing. If I asked you “Why do children grow bigger?”, and you said “because they eat more calories than they expend”, again you would be correct but have told me nothing. And if a child wasn’t growing like they should, you wouldn’t say “just keep feeding them more”, you would look for possible disruptions of their hormonal system.

The reality is that the body is a finely tuned bio mechanical system with feedback loops that are capable of regulating your resting metabolic rate in order to target weight gain, loss, or stasis. The question is why are so many people’s regulation loops so out of whack?

Re: Plastic might be making us obese

#213
This is absurd. The authors should look at what some people (or perhaps they themselves, and that's the issue) have in their trolley (cart?) next time they're shopping (storing? ;)).

Obesity is, for at least the most part, plainly not caused by too many/wrong pesticides on fruit and vegetables. It is caused by (far) too many things that are not fruits and vegetables.

Re: Plastic might be making us obese

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> even bog standard bread Yes, we definitely have too much sugar in everything, but as an amateur baker I will defend sugar in bread. Sure, you don't need it in a baguette or a rustic boule, but it is indispensable for a nice, soft sandwich loaf. It's not there to make the bread sweeter. It makes the bread softer, it boosts the yeast for a nicer rise, and it keeps it from going stale as quickly. Granted, I don't use…

> Sure, "bog standard" bread could have less sugar, but some sugar is essential for this style of bread. I fully agree. As a German I do want to point out that American style sandwich bread is a very specific style. Sugar goes into it much as it does into challah dough or brioche - but all these stradle the cake-bread boundary for me. If you want sugar in your bread, you gotta suffer through the process of making pum…

what does pumpernickel have to do with sugar?

Re: Plastic might be making us obese

#215

So something else I wonder. Over the last 50-90 years we've selectively bred our entire food chain to prioritize rapid growth, then pack it full of growth hormones to accelerate this. My dad decided to raise chickens back in the 80's. The broiler hens grew so fast that they broke their legs, and this was when fed on our kitchen waste (i.e. no growth hormones). I do wonder how much of this spills over into human obesi…

Utter nonsense. Even if growth hormone made it into finished meat, and then if enough was bioavailable to have an effect on humans, growth hormone causes the development of muscle (meat) as well as fat. So you'd expect to see people being more muscular (and taller, with stronger bones).

Re: Plastic might be making us obese

#216
This has got to be the most idiotic, speculative comment section of the year.

Literally not a single coherent explanation of how plastics might actually cause obesity, and a bunch of people going on about sugar and hormones.

Re: Plastic might be making us obese

#217
post #207
post #202

I don't know the last time I could trust an article or even scientific paper about weight / diets / food effects. You'd think the vast amounts of scientific papers would be conclusive, but they're constantly contradicting each other or people uncover ulterior motives, like having shares in a questionable weight loss company. In some of these cases, the source material uses inappropriate sample sizes or has other simi…

It's sugar + sedentarity. It's always been sugar + sedentarity. At least for high levels of obesity, towards morbid obesity.

Close. Not just sugar, but calories of any kind + sedentary.

Re: Plastic might be making us obese

#218
Overlooked throughout this discussion, afaict, is an explanation as to why animals are also getting fatter.

> The problem of obesity isn't confined to just humans. A new study finds increased rates of obesity in mammals ranging from feral rats and mice to domestic pets and laboratory primates.

https://www.livescience.com/10277-obesity-rise-animals.html

Re: Plastic might be making us obese

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> even bog standard bread Yes, we definitely have too much sugar in everything, but as an amateur baker I will defend sugar in bread. Sure, you don't need it in a baguette or a rustic boule, but it is indispensable for a nice, soft sandwich loaf. It's not there to make the bread sweeter. It makes the bread softer, it boosts the yeast for a nicer rise, and it keeps it from going stale as quickly. Granted, I don't use…

The difference between a nice brioche - made with plenty of sugar, with a soft, fluffy character - and a standard loaf of french bread is quite large. I spring for the french bread only because it's cheaper. Bread with sugar is superior.

That’s pretty much the point though isn’t it? Everything is a bit (or a lot) better to the human brain when you add sugar

Re: Plastic might be making us obese

#220
post #38

My guess is that obesogens are to blame, but that they're in food, not plastics. This is because people on weirdo diets (vegans, carnivore, ultra low fat) all lose weight and keep it off, even when they are using the same amount of plastic as everyone else. The common denominator is that they stopped eating industrially manufactured food. I am no expert in the area, just wondering what the hell is going on.

Blaming plastic seems incredibly strange to me, given that plastics are practically universally present in American life but obesity itself is not universal.

Some kind of plastic might be a risk factor, even if not everyone who is exposed to it becomes obese. Cigarettes were once practically universally present in American life, but that did not make lung cancer universal.

But blaming "plastic" is ridiculously general; it's not very far from blaming "matter", "energy", or "technology". To take one example, there's a fairly plausible causal link between halogenated flame retardants in polyurethane foam for furniture and feline hyperthyroidism. Polyurethane is a plastic (WP: "Polyurethane is a commodity plastic."), or, better, a large family of plastics, but even if the link turns out to be real and strong, it would not be very accurate to say "Plastic causes feline hyperthyroidism."

As for "incredibly strange", since most people have no idea what is causing the obesity pandemic despite many researchers looking, anyone who does figure it out will unavoidably have an incredibly strange idea. There's nothing wrong with an idea being incredibly strange; in this case it's a necessary precondition to being correct!

Still, as I said, I suspect it's not a plastic, but one or more food additives. There have been promising preliminary results from fecal transplants for obesity treatment that suggest that the intestinal microbiome is a significant factor (see de Groot, Frissen, de Clerq, and Nieuwdorp 2017). So my attention is particularly drawn to things that affect the intestinal microbiome. Unfortunately, everything you eat affects it.

Some of my own incredibly strange ideas, which probably are not correct, are:

· Titanium dioxide nanoparticles: these are commonly used as a white food coloring (E171), and there's some evidence they migrate to the pancreas and stay there, where conceivably they cause damage in ways that larger titanium dioxide particles do not.

· Propionate salts: these are commonly used as fungicides, for example, in bread and on peaches. Many bacteria produce them as a fungicide, including human gut commensals, but it wouldn't be surprising if adding them in effective quantities changed the ecological equilibrium in the intestinal microbiome. These are GRAS (E280, E281, E282, E283) and an experiment apparently showed behavioral difference in children fed calcium propionate (Dengate and Rubin 2002). (Many propionate esters are also used as artificial flavorings, but in much smaller quantities, and I don't think those flavorings are effective fungicides.)

· Xanthan gum (E415), a slime produced by the broccoli black rot bacterium, commonly used as an emulsifier or thickener in salad dressings, egg substitutes, and oil-well drilling mud. Representing a significant source of energy that most gut commensal bacteria cannot digest, it has been shown to produce changes in the human intestinal microbiome.

· Widely used artificial sweeteners of various kinds (E950, E951, E954, E955); there have been studies suggesting that, although these do not provide a significant number of calories, they may still provoke significant changes in the human intestinal microbiome. This might also be true of things like steviol (E960) or cyclamate (E952) but those clearly aren't in wide enough use to cause the obesity pandemic by themselves.

· High-fructose corn syrup has been suggested by many people, but in my view it is an unlikely candidate, because sucrase turns sucrose into high-fructose corn syrup in the human small intestine.

· Livestock is commonly dosed with significant amounts of hormones and antibiotics in order to promote rapid weight gain, because meat is sold by weight. Some of these hormones and antibiotics are present in the resulting meat. It wouldn't be very surprising if, under some circumstances, they also produced weight gain in the humans who eat it. (But, as I said above, people on fad carnivore diets tend to lose weight.)

But most likely it'll be something nobody has even suspected previously.

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