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German digital signage ban prompts confusion

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Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#211

Post by ivan_gammel »

odshoifsdhfs wrote: post #206
ivan_gammel wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heating is a separate cost, rarely electric. Cooling - did you know that Germans aren’t big fans of A/C? Hot water - same as heating. Besides, in Germany we don’t say “Car charging”, we say “eat healthy and ride your bike”.

With number 25 on cars per capita in the world and one of the biggest car industries and also obesity rates above average than EU. 'eat healthy and ride your bike' my ass

>With number 25 on cars per capita in the world

For one of the richest countries with one of the biggest car industries being only 25th is a great achievement in mobility. Yes, we could do better, but just compare it to the default country (#7 in car ownership, #2 if you exclude microstates).

>obesity rates above average than EU

47th in the global ranking, after Iceland. And USA is right after Oceania. It depends on the perspective.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#212

Post by _kbh_ »

throwaway742 wrote: post #121
lispm wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The bigger problem is that Germany doesn't have any more recent nuclear power plants due to public pressure France hasn't either and they don't have public pressure against it. The are still trying to build a single one, being a decade late and billions more expensive. > or more recently Fukushima, which really just culturally echoed the existing memories of Chernobyl Currently we think about the nuclear fleet in t…

Hasn't Zaporizhzhia been under Russian control for a while now? Why would they be shelling themselves? That doesn't even make sense.

> Hasn't Zaporizhzhia been under Russian control for a while now? Why would they be shelling themselves? That doesn't even make sense.

Because the Russians are trying to disconnect the plant from the Ukrainian grid or cause a disaster they specifically said they could cause a disaster if they wanted to.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#213

Post by polycaster »

locallost wrote: post #202
polycaster wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure where this number comes from. Statistisches Bundesamt says it's 1,958 kwh. https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Enviro... Interestingly, for 2 person households they state 3,196 kwh and for 3+ person households 4,919 kwh. Energy consumption scales worse than I expected. I assumed there would be more synergy in shared households.

That's pretty crazy. We used to spend 1400 KWh as a family of three. Didn't check the latest numbers as a family of four, but I don't expect a lot more. We even cook / bake a lot. What on earth are people spending electricity on?

> What on earth are people spending electricity on?

I guess there are just a lot more appliances in use today and we're more lazy.

When I, approaching my 40s, compare our household with my parents household when I was a child there a various notable changes in habits:

- My mother hang the loundry to dry. We seldomly do this anymore, instead we're using a dryer. These things are insanely power-hungry.

- Electronics for entertainment and communication: A landline phone, a TV (for the evening news), a radio + casette player. Now I'm powering/charging at least 10 devices (like mobile, laptop, smart watch, tablet) at any given time.

- When dark outside, about 3 100W light bulbs would illumate the living space for 5 people. Now we have „power-saving” LEDs. But a lot of them. So many, I can't even compare them.

- When it was hot, well, you endure it. Now we have three ventilators (others start to use ACs, which has always been a very awkward thing to do in Germany).

Edit: I come to think, while a lot has to do with being lazy, another lot has to do with being selfish. Things like hanging the loundry. We use the dryer, so we safe time to do more productive things like working on our careers.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#214

Post by _kbh_ »

fuoqi wrote: post #190
lispm wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The bigger problem is that Germany doesn't have any more recent nuclear power plants due to public pressure France hasn't either and they don't have public pressure against it. The are still trying to build a single one, being a decade late and billions more expensive. > or more recently Fukushima, which really just culturally echoed the existing memories of Chernobyl Currently we think about the nuclear fleet in t…

>Currently we think about the nuclear fleet in the Ukraine which is literally under fire from Russia. It's hilarious how the Western politicians and mass media seriously blame Russia for shelling a nuclear plant which it controls for a number of months. And a lot of people either blindly trust this narrative, or intentionally spread misinformation with the sole goal to demonize Russia as much as possible. It reminds…

> And a lot of people either blindly trust this narrative, or intentionally spread misinformation with the sole goal to demonize Russia as much as possible.

No one needs to demonise a country that commits genocide and has its military rape children, the Russians are plenty good at demonising themselves.

> As far as I know, the goal of shelling (which for the time being does not target the reactors or the spent fuel storage) is to discourage Russia from disconnecting the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant from the Ukrainian grid and connect it with the Russian grid instead.

The goal of the shelling _is_ to disconnect the power plant, the Russians are shelling the plant to try and cause issues with the connection to the Ukrainian grid which they successfully did in the past couple days.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#215

Post by RalfWausE »

fzfaa wrote: post #94
malermeister wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have to save energy to soften the blow of the climate catastrophe. The Russian imperialist aggression is just an additional selling point.

Saving energy means stopping growth. The West stopping growth while China, India, etc. grow uncontrollably because they don't give a crap about the stupid climate plight will be our downfall.

No problem if china or india gives a crap about the climate... the climate very much too gives a crap about them so they will HAVE to do something if enough people starve and enough infrastructure is destroyed by catastrophes

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#216

Post by moffkalast »

xxs wrote: post #135
moffkalast wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone lauds LEDs for being super energy efficient, but the reality is that they really aren't. It's just that they are being compared to even worse light sources that were so bad at efficiency it's hard to really grasp how much they sucked.

LEDs are super efficient, household LED bulbs retrofit for e14/e27 are just a terrible example of overdriven ones with bad lifetime. That has very little to do w/ properly constant current (not over) driven LEDs. (Edit overdriven - higher heat output and worse efficacy) The max efficacy woulod be 683 lm/w. Blue LEDs can reach 1/3 of the theoretical maximum.

The lifetime is pretty good when driven correctly to be sure, I was just talking about raw efficiency. Underdrive a led as much as you want, but you'll still lose half of your energy to waste heat. The heat will just be spread out more and be less noticeable on each chip.

Like, I'm sure we can agree high power LEDs have gigantic heatsinks and fans for other reasons than cosmetic.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#217

Post by carlmr »

polycaster wrote: post #163
morsch wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Average power usage for a 1 person household in Germany is 1300 kwh/year (roughly, numbers vary, but not to a degree that it matters). That's about 150W sustained. So 1500W for a large sign, that's like 150 high power LED light bulbs, I guess that checks out. Anything that reduces ads in the public sphere is fine by me.

Not sure where this number comes from. Statistisches Bundesamt says it's 1,958 kwh. https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Enviro... Interestingly, for 2 person households they state 3,196 kwh and for 3+ person households 4,919 kwh. Energy consumption scales worse than I expected. I assumed there would be more synergy in shared households.

2 person household without much saving is ~1500kWh in my experience.

LEDs and laptop instead of desktop computers lowered these stats quite a lot for me. I'm sure if I bought a newer fridge it would also help.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#218

Post by wickedsickeune »

yrro wrote: post #99
neolithicum wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? You think protecting wildlife is more important than human life? Also, less light might increase the frequency of road kills.

Yes, yes I do. We're doing incalculable damage to animal life (e.g., disrupting birds and insects which are essential pollinators for plants). This is but one facet of the crisis that our species has inflicted upon the planet.

The real problem is that the disruption to animal life will eventually affect human lives too, so you don't really have to choose.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#219

Post by number6 »

csnweb wrote: post #207
polycaster wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure where this number comes from. Statistisches Bundesamt says it's 1,958 kwh. https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Enviro... Interestingly, for 2 person households they state 3,196 kwh and for 3+ person households 4,919 kwh. Energy consumption scales worse than I expected. I assumed there would be more synergy in shared households.

It definitely can scale much better, we are using around 1800 kWh (2 parents, 1 small child) and I think it’s safe to say going below 1300 for one of us would be hard, especially when working from home. But we live in a flat and there are many 2 or three persons households in a whole house, probably with several computers and may be even tvs and certainly more lights. May be you do save a bit on cooking and the fridg…

Kids will make your washing machine run constantly; and the dryer...

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#220

Post by actionfromafar »

7steps2much wrote: post #128
yrro wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first I loved LED street lights because I could see so much better by them (and I presume that they have an increased deterrent effect on crime though I have not checked this). These days I think disrupting wildlife is more important than human safety and I wish we could get rid of nearly all street lighting.

But wouldn't animals be able to adapt to a single, predictable light source that illuminates a certain area more easily than to an arbitrary number of individual light sources in an arbitrary number of configurations/angles moving around? That said, maybe one could equip street lights with a sensor so they don't need to run at all times?

Over a few millenia, certainly.
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