Earlier quoted context omitted.
Or fill the oceans with oil and set it on fire!
Ah yes, Ocean 2.0! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rE7KcF3MphU
Lol. Thanks for the laugh.
Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’
211–220 of 239 posts
Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, extracting contaminated materials from an environment and decontaminating them would removing life because it's destructive. That's what cleaning this stuff up involves. I'm all for "environmentally damaging" or someother name but "forever chemicals" is just a bad name for this that is going to get picked up on by people. I'm not suggesting burn so much co2 that the planet gets to 120C, although it'd have less h…
Pumping high-strength lye heated to 40-120C into the environment (soil and water supply) in large enough quantities to neutralize PFOA over large areas is right up there with alt.pave.the.earth in terms of practicality and environmentalism. some serious HackerNews brain right there, just needs an app and I can get my bingo. There aren't many chemicals that won't be destroyed in those conditions, the lye will just rip…
Why are you assuming I'm promoting insanity?
Remove the contaminated material from nature first then return it. Cleaned.
I'm not saying we should dump more chemicals because of chemicals. This is a depressingly stupid conversation.
Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’
#213KOH is not soap, it is used in the production of soap and KOH will make your skin to soap. Destroying anything organic by cooking it in strong lye at 120 °C with quite polar solvent is not something unexpected. It might be optimised with crown ethers or other phase-transfer catalysts, but I cannot see how this is a milder treatment than simple heating it until decomposition. To make this reaction affordable one has to extract/purify these forever-chemicals first. Otherwise, mostly other stuff will be destroyed. Lime (Ca(OH)₂) is somewhat cheaper in this quantities, maybe this reaction can be done with it. This will also bind any fluoride ions, which would make this way less toxic.
Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
And you think that ingesting PTFE is somehow worse than an actual PTFE implant? Why you insisting it must be a digestion study? Do you make such requirements for everything you interact with? Has someone done a study on using paper straws? Or plastic plates? Or metal spoons? Do you understand that when you eat PTFE it comes out exactly the same way it went in? Even powerful acids can't do anything to PTFE, what makes…
> And you think that ingesting PTFE is somehow worse than an actual PTFE implant? I think that it isn't even close to being equivalent. > Why you insisting it must be a digestion study You are the one who made the statement: "It's about the most inert material that you can possibly ingest." so prove it, or admit that this is your opinion and not backed by research. I'm not even asking for research comparing the effec…
You can't have a long term study given that PTFE doesn't stay in the system, so there's nothing to study.
Are you planning on feeding people PTFE every couple hours?
> the long term effects of ingesting PTFE on the body are unknown.
They are known. They are non-existent.
You are arguing from bad faith and profound lack of knowledge of chemistry. To even hypothesize that PTFE can do anything, anything at all, to the body would require some new magical chemistry that doesn't exist.
There is nothing in the body, nothing, that can affect the stability of the chemical bonds that make up PTFE - if you had even a tiny bit of scientific understanding you know that, and not embarrass yourself with these demands for studies.
Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
> but your average cookware still contains enough PFOA left over from the synthesis process to cause harm That isn't true. "Studies show that this coating contains a negligible amount of PFAS capable of migrating to food." https://www.fda.gov/food/chemical-contaminants-food/question... > Toxic enough that you can't use Teflon cookware if you own birds. It'll kill them. This also isn't true. You can't heat your cookwa…
> This also isn't true. You can't heat your cookware above 500F / 260C, that's it. Which obviously no one does since everything would be burned black. People do badly burn their food and ruin their pans.
Yes, that's true, but if it were oil they would also kill their birds. Teflon is safer for birds than oil.
Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
It does not build up in your body, it builds up in the environment. The amount in your body is basically exactly the same as whatever environment you are in. On top of that, how much PFOA would you imagine is even in a frying pan? It's already so little it's considered negligible, so unless you are buying new ones every day, even the negligible amount is not "building up".
Yet that negligible amount is enough to kill birds. What was that about miners and canaries?
> Yet that negligible amount is enough to kill birds.
No it's not. You misunderstood what you read.
To kill birds you have to burn the Teflon, and the Teflon smoke kills them. And you have the get the pan HOT - way hotter than anyone cooks. Teflon is not easy to burn, you can put a blowtorch on it for a short time and not affect it.
Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sun is gonna die eventually
Earth will vanish long before the Sun does. C3 photosynthetic plant life will end in about 600My. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formation_and_evolution_of_the... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_Earth
Thankfully we have significant expertise is increasing atmospheric CO2 levels.
Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do people cook eggs without oil? Do you use butter or something?
You can definitely fry eggs on teflon without butter or oil or anything. I have this vague memory that I used to be able to do this on cast iron when I lived in the US, with maybe the occasional bit sticking.
You can do this to a brand new, high quality teflon pan, but it will gradually become less and less possible as you use it more.
Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
I googled, and I could not find any ovens with Teflon in them. On top of that you have to heat the Teflon over 500F / 260C, and ovens temperatures don't go so high (except in self cleaning but a non-stick oven would not have self cleaning). I suspect something else happened to your birds - probably simple smoke from food residue, which kills birds much easier than overheated Teflon does.
Interesting. IIRC the only thing that changed before and after was the oven was replaced. Ah well.
This person has been saying all over the thread that "ovens don't go to 500F" and here finally add the actual caveat "except self cleaning". At least half the ovens listed in Lowes's online inventory list self cleaning as a feature, and it's even a feature in my bargain basement level apartment oven, which happily goes up to 550F, which is great for cooking pizza.
I don't know whether they're being intellectually dishonest, or genuinely don't realize they're spreading useless info.
They're claim that nobody gets a pan hot enough to degrade teflon while cooking is slightly more reasonable, except plenty of recipes start with "heat an empty, dry pan until it is searing hot" and that leaves a lot of room to screw up your pan.
Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
You probably know what you are talking about but the lack of research doesn't fill me with confidence [1]: > However, at temperatures above 500°F (260°C), Teflon coatings on nonstick cookware start to break down, releasing toxic chemicals into the air. [...] Polymer fume fever consists of temporary, flu-like symptoms such as chills, fever, headache, and body aches. The onset occurs after 4–10 hours of exposure, and t…
Maybe you don't realize how hot 500F is - your oven maxes out at 450. At 500 everything in the plan is black charcoal. Any oil in the pan caught fire.
You keep repeating this "ovens don't go to 500F" claim all over the thread and it is just wrong. Looking at lowes.com, around half their oven inventory has a self cleaning option, requiring the oven to be able to get to that high temperature. Even a cheap electric oven will often have a self cleaning feature and a max temp above 500F.
What evidence do you have for this claim?