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Part of my code makes Copilot crash

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Re: Part of my code makes Copilot crash

#211

Post by eyelidlessness »

monkeywork wrote: post #141
eyelidlessness wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The actual racist thing is that humans who don’t consider or prepare for or include affected people in deciding to deploy models trained to produce racist outcomes. It doesn’t matter that the machine has no opinions, it matters that the machine produces outcomes reflecting harmful biases. Banning the word doesn’t change that, but neither does treating the biased process as unbiased.

The models output isnt racist. Racism has intent, the algo doesn't. It can be wrong or right but it is not making a judgment based on anything outside of math. You are correct to say the training wasn't complete but that doesn't mean anyone did anything wrong, racist, or hateful... 99% of the time it's simply a mistake. When you label things like that as racist instead of simply mistakes you water that word down to t…

> Racism has intent

This is a failure to understand centuries of history. It’s an understandable one, it’s one I used to relate more to and I probably still relate to it far more than I should.

The notion of racism requiring malice is so far from reality that similar defenses were dismissed almost a century ago in international tribunals which still shape the world.

It takes no malice to participate in racism. It only takes accepting it as given. This doesn’t have anything to do with anything that’s originated from the internet, from any perspective. It doesn’t make racism meaningless. Treating it that way does though.

“The” problem is that racism, as a societal background factor, is treated as the sea in which we swim, it’s “neutral” without an actor present to promote it. If it just “is”, no one is “at fault” and… the kicker, if your definition requires intent and there isn’t any intent for the specifics under question… it’s not just a mistake, it has defenses like these to shield and bolster it.

You can rail against “social justice” all you like, and I’m betting my response will show your railing resonates more here than it should. But your position is ahistorical and probably based in defensiveness about something you don’t need to defend.

Re: Part of my code makes Copilot crash

#212

Post by nonethewiser »

magicalist wrote: post #191
Mo3 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

You lament people becoming extreme in their views above and then go full moral panic in this post. Maybe try to remember previous gay panics (or pick an alternate target group) that society has gone through in the past, remember what that ended up amounting to, and maybe reevaluate your media sources if you've suddenly been convinced groomers make up a large portion of the population.

He seems pretty middle of the road on this to me. Isnt transferring male inmates to female prisons absurd to you?

Re: Part of my code makes Copilot crash

#213

Post by magicalist »

nonethewiser wrote: post #201
sergiomattei wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The allegation is the root cause, not the problem itself.

It's in a list of censored words that were leaked a while ago. It's not really a mystery. I guess if it's not explicitly censored then its just a bug that Microsoft can fix.

"censored"

Re: Part of my code makes Copilot crash

#214

Post by mlyle »

agileAlligator wrote: post #174
mlyle wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They refer to it as “eliminating bias”, I don't think, e.g. being able to handle black faces correctly is some sort of massive ideological commitment. So let's not pretend that the entire concern of bias in AI is irrelevant, no matter where you stand on gender. > conformance with one very specific set of ideological commitments You know-- let's just talk about basic respect and dignity: if someone strongly wants to…

> if someone strongly wants to be referred to in a particular way, the polite response is to respect their wishes Would you also respect the wishes of a schizophrenic person, if they say much the same thing? If they say that they are actually an alien from outer space, would you play along?

> Would you also respect the wishes of a schizophrenic person, if they say much the same thing?

In general, I would respect someone's wishes. If they want to be Mork from outer space, K.

Of course, there are some very limited cases where we may reasonably believe that playing along is harmful either to ourselves or to the other person. If there's a broad medical consensus that something is harmful to someone, then maybe we shouldn't do it.

A biologically female person who wants to be called "they," because they have decided they don't like the connotations attached to "she" right now, doesn't rise anywhere close to that in my opinion.

Re: Part of my code makes Copilot crash

#216

Post by nonethewiser »

scifibestfi wrote: post #129
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The backlash is already mounting. Is it? To me it feels like it's getting worse and worse, but that might be my bubble.

This mind virus is even capturing science. Here's a job opening for a Research Chair in Experimental Physics. "Candidates must be from one or more of the following equity-seeking groups to apply: women, persons with disabilities, Indigenous peoples, and racialized groups" https://www.universityaffairs.ca/search-job/?job_id=58317

Turns out the cry of "institutionalized racism and sexism" was actually a threat.

Re: Part of my code makes Copilot crash

#217

Post by nonethewiser »

UnpossibleJim wrote: post #139
Mo3 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's gonna come soon enough. The backlash is already mounting. I'm just honestly super exhausted by any of the insanity right now, not even only regarding this topic. It's just complete black-and-white thinking these days, no matter about what it is. Extremes only. The stronger your opinion the better, how else would you feel like you exist? Almost no one with a rational, centered overarching perspective. Twenty year…

To be honest, I think most people aren't at the extreme but the most extreme voices are amplified so loudly that it seems like there are many more of them than there actually are. Unfortunately, corporations and politicians are placating these amplified voices instead of the majority of reasonable people - much to their own detriment and the detriment of of society at large.

It's pretty common to discriminate based off race and sex. Public institutions due it as a matter of policy in the name of social justice. I'm not sure how it could be more mainstream.

Re: Part of my code makes Copilot crash

#218

Post by tablespoon »

nonethewiser wrote: post #150
camdenlock wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a zealous push by a small but extremely vocal fringe to impose their very particular worldview onto emerging AI/ML models like this. They refer to it as “eliminating bias”, but it’s really just an attempt to mold these new technologies into conformance with one very specific set of ideological commitments. Proponents view it as some kind of obvious universal good, and are confused when anyone else is appalled…

> They refer to it as “eliminating bias”, but it’s really just an attempt to mold these new technologies into conformance with one very specific set of ideological commitments. It is quite literally creating bias.

>> They refer to it as “eliminating bias”, but it’s really just an attempt to mold these new technologies into conformance with one very specific set of ideological commitments.

> It is quite literally creating bias.

None of the people who do it care. One of the deceptive tactics that's pretty common in contemporary political discourse is to corrupt definitions in order to enforce controversial ideology using anodyne language.

>> Proponents view it as some kind of obvious universal good, and are confused when anyone else is appalled by the blind foolishness of it all.

IMHO, that "confusion" is an act.

Re: Part of my code makes Copilot crash

#219

Post by lmm »

mlyle wrote: post #198
lmm wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> Removing your face-recognition function because it's less effective on black faces is certainly a substantial ideological commitment. Deploying your face-recognition function for something critical that impacts user quality of life, even if it doesn't recognize black faces well, is an ideological commitment by default. > That's not generally true. It's absolutely generally true. We generally call people by the name…

No post body was provided.

Re: Part of my code makes Copilot crash

#220

Post by nonethewiser »

fugalfervor wrote: post #171
betwixthewires wrote: post #5

I hope to god that one day we will all see this nonsense for what it is: absurdly hilarious.

I don't really find it that funny. I don't think the correct response to everyone being upset by this (from many different angles) is to stand back from it and laugh at it. Some people feel that wokeness is ruining the world. I can't really speak to that position because my political initialization was on the other side of the cultural gulf in America. The way I have come to understand transgender issues is very much…

Therefore ban gender from GH copilot?

We can be empathetic without placating some really tyrannical trends.

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