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People from elite backgrounds increasingly dominate academia, data shows

washingtonpost.com

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Re: People from elite backgrounds increasingly dominate academia, data shows

#211

Post by MontyCarloHall »

lapcat wrote: post #204
MontyCarloHall wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most graduate school debt is due to master’s degrees and professional degrees (e.g. JDs, MDs, MBAs). The vast majority of PhD programs are fully funded, fully covering tuition and providing a (modest) stipend.

Citation please? For reference, I was in a PhD program in the humanities at the University of Wisconsin, and it was definitely not fully funded.

Sure: https://www.air.org/sites/default/files/downloads/report/STE...

In STEM fields, 10% of PhD students reported using external (non-university) funds as their primary source of grad school funding; 10% of those externally funded students (1% overall) reported using loans as their primary funding source.

In non-STEM fields, the proportion of non-funded PhD students is higher, at 35%, of which about half (17% overall) used loans as their primary source of funding.

Given that the majority of PhDs in the US are in STEM, it is correct to say that the vast majority of American PhD programs are fully funded.

Re: People from elite backgrounds increasingly dominate academia, data shows

#212

Post by tut-urut-utut »

cm2187 wrote: post #32

> In 1970, just 1 in 5 U.S.-born PhD graduates in economics had a parent with a graduate degree. Now? Two-thirds of them do, according to a new analysis from the Peterson Institute for International Economics. The trends are similar for other fields (and for foreign-born students), but economics is off the charts. > This partly reflects population trends: Over that same period, the share of parents with graduate degr…

> So % of parents with college degree increased by 3.5x (from 4% to 14%) and % of students coming from parents with college degree increased 3.3x (from 1/5 to 2/3). That more than explains it, doesn't it?

Just wait until percentage of parent with a degree reaches 25%. Then you'll see 120% of students having a parent with a degree. Hope that your explanation that "everything is normal" will still hold then.

Re: People from elite backgrounds increasingly dominate academia, data shows

#213

Post by alexpotato »

This story is decidedly anecdata, even personal, but I think it's illustrative of what's going on in certain fields.

- Had a friend who has multiple graduate level degrees in architecture related sub-specialties e.g. architecture criticism etc

- HN being what it is, I will mention that the pay for most of the jobs you would get with the above is zero or near zero.

- There is also a dramatic oversupply of candidates for available positions

- That being said, certain jobs can be prestigious e.g. curator at a museum etc

- Most places that would hire someone with these degrees will ONLY hire the children of very wealthy individuals

- Why? The thought is that a museum hires the child of a hedge fund manager, there is a non-zero chance the wealthy parent will give or leave money to the institution when they die

- This means a steady stream of unpaid internships for everyone else for, essentially, the rest of their lives

It's therefore not surprising that only wealthy/elites would go into these particular fields and, in turn, causes people to not even enter the academic subjects to begin with.

This isn't necessarily a criticism since everyone here is acting rationally from an economics perspective. I do wonder about the poor kid from a bad neighborhood who could have become the next great museum curator if not for the fact that his parents aren't wealthy.

Re: People from elite backgrounds increasingly dominate academia, data shows

#214

Post by 93po »

zo1 wrote: post #93
AinderS wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you went to a campus and captured 2 such pictures of people at random Yes. But if a Washington Post photographer went (or chose the pictures), it's vanishingly uncommon. A duckduckgo image search, limited to washingtonpost.com, of "phd graduation", "phd students", "phd graduate", "graduation", or "university students", yields almost no such pictures. Almost all are either very diverse, or entirely black. They on…

Quoted post unavailable.

I wouldn't call it propaganda. It's just part of a narrative. Not saying the narrative is wrong, but if you're going to write an article you're trying to convince your readers.

Re: People from elite backgrounds increasingly dominate academia, data shows

#215

Post by 93po »

abeppu wrote: post #84
frognumber wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been affiliated with MIT in one way or another for more than a quarter-century. What's been astounding is the change in faculty. Historically, MIT faculty were nerds into neat tech problems. New MIT faculty are slick politicians with an increasing sleazy Enron-style vibe. That's true of MIT leadership as well.

Can you elaborate on what "Enron-style vibe" means when describing university faculty?

form over substance

Re: People from elite backgrounds increasingly dominate academia, data shows

#216

Post by rr888 »

My father was a professor, so saw a lot of University people and politics. I just dont understand how anyone can talk about Academia as "elite". They are mostly a bunch of poorly paid, navel gazing bureaucrats who do a little interesting exploring but mostly spend time with annoying students. Its a terrible career, esp compared to tech or business world. To say poorer students are "locked out" makes me lol.

There is also the fact that many more people have undergrad & graduate degrees now so the fact that the number of educated parents has increased is what you'd expect.

Re: People from elite backgrounds increasingly dominate academia, data shows

#217

Post by 93po »

httpz wrote: post #57

Going into academia is usually not the best way to maximize your financial earning potential. So usually people who go into academia value pursuit of knowledge over money. Academics tend to raise children with those values.

Most of the people I know that get into academia do it because traditional work sounds awful to them but they're really good at school, so they stick with what they know. My ex got a PhD just so she didn't have to work for 5 years in a traditional office style job in finance.

Re: People from elite backgrounds increasingly dominate academia, data shows

#219

Post by the_lonely_road »

rr888 wrote: post #216

My father was a professor, so saw a lot of University people and politics. I just dont understand how anyone can talk about Academia as "elite". They are mostly a bunch of poorly paid, navel gazing bureaucrats who do a little interesting exploring but mostly spend time with annoying students. Its a terrible career, esp compared to tech or business world. To say poorer students are "locked out" makes me lol. There is…

The state of Florida publishes professor salaries, likely other states do too. Your assessment of “poorly paid” falls on deaf ears for most Americans not making tech salaries.

Re: People from elite backgrounds increasingly dominate academia, data shows

#220

Post by hourago »

alexpotato wrote: post #213

This story is decidedly anecdata, even personal, but I think it's illustrative of what's going on in certain fields. - Had a friend who has multiple graduate level degrees in architecture related sub-specialties e.g. architecture criticism etc - HN being what it is, I will mention that the pay for most of the jobs you would get with the above is zero or near zero. - There is also a dramatic oversupply of candidates f…

> Why? The thought is that a museum hires the child of a hedge fund manager, there is a non-zero chance the wealthy parent will give or leave money to the institution when they die

Another way that inequality damages society. When your best bet for your future is to appeal to the super rich instead of serving society and getting money from the government society losses its power.

As you say, it is rational to work for the one that can pay you. It's a catastrophe that there general public in aggregation has less power than very rich individuals by themselves.

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