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The SQLite Code of Ethics

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Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#211

Post by lsh123 »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #160
logifail wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you have a truly diverse group of people, they will not suffer fascists in their group Not sure why one has to jump straight to fascists. Shouldn't a truly diverse group of people always include people with views that you disagree with? Otherwise we're defining a diverse group as 'looking diverse ' yet all thinking the same.

I think it's helpful when seeing the word "fascist" in 2022 to not take it literally. It now simply means "people to the right of me".

[flagged]

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#213

Post by madeofpalk »

thaneross wrote: post #96
molyss wrote: post #11

seeing as some people have already added some comments criticizing the code of conduct, I thought I'd add what I think is the most important parts of that code of Ethics : > No one is required to follow The Rule [...] or even think that [it] is a good idea. [...] anyone is free to dispute or ignore that idea [...] > This is a one-way promise [...]. the developers are saying "we will treat you this way regardless of h…

I can't help but notice the contrast with the popular, Contributor Covenant Code of Conduct, which makes it abundantly clear its aim to enforce a set of beliefs on its contributors, with no boundaries between professional and personal life.

> all current developers have pledged to follow the spirit of The Rule to the best of their ability

This one seems to be just the same, for better or worse?

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#214

Post by duskwuff »

sorokod wrote: post #134
Lio wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know that sounds like mechanical praxis to me. If it wasn't grandfathered in then it was probably banned in a Convox.

That is possible. Maybe some avout would develop a discipline where they execute programs in their minds. Some sort of Chinese Room setup but for general purpose computing.

Something like this is actually hinted at in the novel, about halfway through Part 9:

> The Orithenans had used a system of computational chanting that, it was plain to see, was rooted in traditions that their founders had brought over from Edhar. To that point, it was clearly recognizable to any Edharian. It was a way of carrying out computations on patterns of information by permuting a given string of notes into new melodies. The permutation was done on the fly by following certain rules, defined using the formalism of cellular automata. After the Second Sack reforms, newly computerless avout had invented this kind of music. In some concents it had withered away, in others mutated into something else, but at Edhar it had always been practiced seriously. We'd all learned it as a sort of children's musical game. But at Orithena they had been doing new things with it, using it to solve problems. Or rather to solve a problem, the nature of which I didn't understand yet. Anyway, it sounded good -- the results, for some reason, just tended to be more musical than the Edharian version, which was serviceable for computing things, but, as music, could be hard to take.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#215

Post by lfkdev »

These rules sound terrible. What is it with people to put everything they do in God? Just do it because you're a good guy and you want to do it. Not because some galactic justice tolds you to do it. Really a shame.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#216

Post by adamrezich »

nindalf wrote: post #204
adamrezich wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

until a few years ago, it was implicit that everyone contributing to open-source projects would treat each other respectfully, because personal politics or identity issues or whatever were wholly divorced from writing code to make computers do things. this is no longer the case, and people running many open-source projects feel the need to legislate morality upon its contributors, as though they were kindergarten tea…

> what could possibly cause this sense of entitlement You keep typing this out in different words, almost like you're seeking to reinforce over and over that I'm entitled. I see what you're doing, you're heard. And I'll say what I've said earlier - I feel entitled to be treated well because people generally treat me well. And your brilliant contribution is "but why should that be the norm?" Thanks.

>I feel hurt.

>I shouldn’t be made to feel like this

this is entitlement.

    en·ti·tle·ment
    /inˈtīdlmənt,enˈtīdlmənt/
    noun
    the fact of having a right to something.
somehow reading a Code of Ethics for an open-source project you had an extremely slim chance of ever contributing to has emotionally injured you enough to express said injury on the Internet. when you say "I should not be made to feel like this", you are saying that the sqlite devs are morally in the wrong for having their Code of Ethics written the way that it is, because just reading it caused you pain, because of their implicit disregard for your feelings, Random Person On The Internet.

I'm having trouble seeing the disconnect between "somebody on the Internet has a project whose Code of Ethics caused me emotional pain because it made me feel unwelcome" and the word "entitlement". could you please clarify?

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#217

Post by stale2002 »

gunfighthacksaw wrote: post #186
LAC-Tech wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the crypto-fascism conspiracy theory - or the blackshirt scare. There's fascists everywhere. They don't call themselves that, they don't organise under that label, and their views aren't particularly similar to historical fascism - but it's a serious threat! It's so powerful that they have to keep it a secret because they'll be cast out of polite society... At least McCarthy actually found people spying for t…

> They don't call themselves that, they don't organise under that label Why would they? Much of our current mythology is based around slaughtering fascists in WW2. Why would anyone identify with that? > their views aren't particularly similar to historical fascism Hence the appellation of neofascism. There is a direct thread of political genealogy from the alt-right to the OG fascists, through the European Nouvelle D…

Or how about, instead of that, we recognize that the vast majority of people are not engaging in political violence, revolution, or physically attacking their political opponents, or any of these allegedly horrible things that you think are happening.

And instead of that, we should recognize that most people just want to do work at their workplace, have friends, and live their life, and are not apart of any neo nazi groups that are going to target minorities at the drop of the hat.

Most people, are just regular normal individuals, who are not engaging in horrible actions or attacks against others, and we do not need to be on a witch hunt to find the secret nazis that you think are hiding just around the corner.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#218

Post by utopcell »

zimpenfish wrote: post #152
utopcell wrote: post #147

I've used SQLite in the long past (early 2000s) and had fun with it, but I had never seen this. Imposing your religious beliefs through a ..code of "ethics" no less, in exchange for some (arguably small) thing you've done that is completely irrelevant to these beliefs is ludicrous. While I secretly hope that the author is light-spirited in writing this, I will err on the safe side and never use, and actively steer fo…

> in exchange for some (arguably small) thing you've done I dunno that I'd describe the most deployed database in the world "some (arguably small) thing", really?

Scale is relative: my day-to-day involves working at a planet-scale serving infrastructure that handles trillions of documents. I've always thought of sqlite as "this little library that you drop in for handling small datasets reliably". For the sake of argument though, let it be a library that is deployed everywhere: its usefulness or technical prowess was never in question.

There are religious folks whose work I reference or use frequently, but they keep their beliefs to themselves. Don Knuth is a canonical example of this for me. No issues there, anyone should be free to believe whatever gets them through their day.

In my (subjective, biased, maybe incorrect,) opinion, people whose code of "ethics" includes phrases like "keep death daily before your eyes, fear the Day of Judgment and be in dread of hell" are dangerous. I doubt they're even aware that hell was voted in existence centuries after their savior was crucified. The amount of life lost and the intellectual stagnation stemming from these religious fanatics, these broken people, is staggering. We'd have reached Alpha Centauri by now were it not for them.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#219

Post by aldonius »

adamrezich wrote: post #195
nindalf wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> many open-source projects' Codes of Ethics/Conduct/whatever make me feel explicitly unwelcome Most open source projects Code of Conduct boil down to "don't be mean to other contributors, treat them well". I'm sorry this makes you feel explicitly unwelcome. That said, it's never been a problem for me to adhere to that. This is a first time for me being excluded, and it feels bad. I'm commenting on why this person ha…

until a few years ago, it was implicit that everyone contributing to open-source projects would treat each other respectfully, because personal politics or identity issues or whatever were wholly divorced from writing code to make computers do things. this is no longer the case, and people running many open-source projects feel the need to legislate morality upon its contributors, as though they were kindergarten tea…

> because personal politics or identity issues or whatever were wholly divorced from writing code to make computers do things

I'd disagree there. The free-software movement, for example, is fundamentally tied up with a certain set of political-moral principles; the open-source movement is similarly tied up with a somewhat different set of principles.

If someone's "not political" then maybe they're a weathervane, or professionally neutral, but it's probably more likely that what they think of as "politics" isn't currently fighting over a topic of salience to them.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#220

Post by paulryanrogers »

teakettle42 wrote: post #180
paulryanrogers wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So a few bad apples has ruined the whole idea in your mind? Are you also satisfied with the diversity within the project communities that you contribute to?

> So a few bad apples has ruined the whole idea in your mind? It’s not a few. They’re primarily a tool for bad actors to secure institutional power. However, even if we take the surface-level arguments for a code of conduct in good faith, the entire concept is rooted in the premise that a healthy community arises out of strictly codifying social norms and permissible beliefs, imbuing a central, unaccountable authorit…

Without clear boundaries around conduct many communities become toxic. In gaming (playing and related projects) for example it pushes out girls and women, or at least to hide their gender.

Forums have long had rules, spoken or unspoken. Making them more explicit is helpful IME.

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