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Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

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Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#211

Post by Eji1700 »

csours wrote: post #64
andrewflnr wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your points are technically true but effectively vacuous, equally applicable to all possible door locks. Is there someone claiming that just because this lock is (allegedly) unpickable, it's a complete security solution, so that you felt you had to comment on the importance of other approaches to security?

No, I'm saying that people have an irrational desire for an unpickable lock, perhaps not having considered their security/threat model.

I think it has narrow applications in government high security areas and some corporate things where covert access can be a catastrophe. Also large datacenters and what not where an unknown physical compromise, while VERY difficult to achieve, could have tremendous repercussions.

In 90% of situations a bad actor will probably just use brute force. There is something to be said if this isn't bump-able/pick-able, in that at least you won't have the situation where a potential bad actor gains "covert" access, and so people think they're supposed to be there, as opposed to them kicking down the door, but the number of scenarios where that actually matters is slim.

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#212

Post by kevincox »

ivegotnoaccount wrote: post #207

Probably stupid question but are keys like https://cdn.cle-serrure.fr/media/catalog/product/cache/13/im... that easy to pick ? I was under the impression that they were made this way exactly because they made the creation of tools harder (variation of widths of circles, code encoded on the small width of the key and not its big height...)

My understanding is that they are generally harder to pick, but not in any real fundamental way.

Example: https://youtu.be/verPAfwVSGg. Although he is really struggling here which is a huge win for the lock.

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#213

Post by vbezhenar »

MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #191
vbezhenar wrote: post #152

Why people keep using mechanical locks when electronics is cheaper and could use unbeatable encryption?

What is the failure model when the power goes? Do you fail safe (unlocked) or fail secure (locked)?

For safes you of course keep it locked. But provide some hidden wires to power the lock if battery died. Of course you should think about protecting electronics from something like megavolt put on those wires, but it's doable and with enough iterations all weak spots should be fixed.

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#214

Post by msandford »

chiph wrote: post #209
cvccvroomvroom wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't be bothered to use YT anymore with all the ads. They're basically interactive, on-demand, corporate TV monetizing other people's content and nothing more. The world needs a co-op video sharing app and a microblogging app.

Having a PiHole on your network makes it tolerable. But doesn't fix their broken recommendation system.

How so? I have a pihole and the requisite config on my ddwrt router but still get plenty of yt ads.

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#216

Post by _alex_ »

rblatz wrote: post #176
lrvick wrote: post #133

I am a reasonably capable lockpicker and lock collector with hundreds of locks of every mechanism I can get my hands on... and as LPL often demonstrates, the vast majority of them, particularly the move clever seeming designs, are actually easy to pick. I have one of the Enclave lock prototypes on my desk and can confirm the machining is brilliant and I have no idea how one could approach picking this. No feedback at…

So looking at the lock’s YouTube video it may be susceptible to an attack where you set all the pins to their lowest, turn the key and then jolt the lock several times while continuing to turn the key.

you're describing a bump key!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lock_bumping

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#217

Post by dubswithus »

cvccvroomvroom wrote: post #204
harrisi wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interaction of engineering and "use" by the Lock Picking Lawyer ( https://youtu.be/Ecy1FBdCRbQ ) was fascinating - "use" here really meaning "exploiting". It's a problem many here are aware of, either by over-engineering things intended for use by non-engineers, or designing things to be used by customers when the designer isn't intimately familiar with the use. In this case it was sort of somewhere in between. I…

I can't be bothered to use YT anymore with all the ads. They're basically interactive, on-demand, corporate TV monetizing other people's content and nothing more. The world needs a co-op video sharing app and a microblogging app.

I use Brave to block the ads. Also, Brave has the playlist feature on iOS which is quite nice.

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#218

Post by yebyen »

franciscop wrote: post #98
harrisi wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interaction of engineering and "use" by the Lock Picking Lawyer ( https://youtu.be/Ecy1FBdCRbQ ) was fascinating - "use" here really meaning "exploiting". It's a problem many here are aware of, either by over-engineering things intended for use by non-engineers, or designing things to be used by customers when the designer isn't intimately familiar with the use. In this case it was sort of somewhere in between. I…

Def want to see Enclave's under Lock Picking Lawyer! If you make a "unpickable lock" you'd def want to send it to LPL, that's like the ultimate proof of how easy/hard it is to pick. The fact that there's no video, with how approachable LPL is and accepts random locks in his PO box, can only be seen as a red flag. Do it in the open, like Stuff Made Here!

I definitely remember seeing a design similar to this one not many weeks ago on LPL. I am looking for it now. The video on the landing page shows these little discs which can provide a false set, and a secondary mechanism that opens only when all the pins have a correct set. I am not an expert just watch a lot of LPL so don't take my word for it when I say this is the same design, this may be a completely novel design, but I'm looking for the video, it can't have been long ago...

Edit: ok, it wasn't on LPL, or a similar design at all, it was this lock and it was on Lock Noob, I found this was in my viewing history and it was just recently published, it must be the video I remember: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNHFyc1oMwU (I see this was also linked down thread)

It looks like a very good design! I'd like to see it in front of Lock Picking Lawyer too

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#219

Post by eszaq »

timhh wrote: post #153
barrkel wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He generally only shows locks he knows how to pick. Unlocking is the payoff to the video and I don't think I've seen a single video where he didn't succeed, but if you read between the lines on his older videos, you notice him talking about the locks he recently learned to pick, locks he's never been able to pick, and so on. He's very good, but he's not infallible. He just doesn't show his failures.

The only one I've seen was the Bowley lock. But yeah I sent my unpickable lock to him and he never mentioned it. :( https://youtu.be/7hUonUE1hEY

Nice vid! You can print one of these for just 30 GBP? You know high end locks go for a lot more than that right? You could be printing money!

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#220

Post by Fnoord »

Quequau wrote: post #182
brokenkebab2 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LPL is not a locksmith, he practices lockpicking as a sport. And evidently extremely good at it.

Not only that but he manufactures and sells lock picking equipment and consults on physical security. There's nothing part time about LPL's lock picking any more.

Well, we don't know what his main job is, only that he lives in Washington DC. I would assume because of his location that he works for the US government, and that this is the reason he does not want his face on video.
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