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Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

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Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#211

Post by zarathustreal »

Alupis wrote: post #195
argonaut wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't make any sense. You would only feel ripped off because some dealerships say "No Haggle" and some do haggle. If every dealership has the same price for a specific car then literally by definition you cannot get ripped off. You're also fixating too much on the meaning of MSRP. Before the car shortage MSRP was basically just a marketing number to anchor negotiations at a high number (except for cars in supe…

To make it as clear as possible - Dealerships compete to win your business. They compete in varying ways, which include price and service. Who does Ford compete with if they set all of the prices and offer direct sales for an entire product line (EV's in this case)? The answer is "nobody". And we all know competition is what benefits the consumer... this is a regression, not an advancement. The dealership model can u…

>Who does Ford compete with if they set all of the prices and offer direct sales for an entire product line (EV's in this case)?

>The answer is "nobody".

It would seem to me that the answer would be "every other EV manufacturer"?

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#212

Post by qgin »

TreyS wrote: post #134
paxys wrote: post #39

A lot has been said about the dealership model in the last few years, and the almost universal consensus is that it is an unnecessary and predatory industry and all auto makers should just sell cars directly like Tesla does. That being said, is there any counterpoint to this view? Are there any benefits that dealerships offer today over direct sales? What would we lose if we got rid of every dealership? If there is t…

Dealerships are major job providers in small towns and provide some of the better jobs. Salespeople, loan officers, etc. Think replacing local grocery stores with Walmart. Low end jobs stay, high end jobs go away. Further hurts small towns. My guess is that a good chunk of the efficiencies from this model will go to Ford corporate so it’s a wealth transfer from small towns to big co managers / stockholders.

Semi-counterpoint: Walmart pays hourly workers more than any of the mom-and-pop retail in my hometown.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#213

Post by sammalloy »

bombcar wrote: post #151
sircastor wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll second this from a privileged position. I own a late model Land Rover, and if I take it down to the dealer to solve something, they treat me very well and put me in a very nice lounge while I wait. It’s a first class experience. I don’t think I’d get as nice attention from a non-luxury dealer though.

Every dealership I’ve ever been to has been like that. Sometimes they’re even worth using for “normal” repairs because they will sometimes bill by the book even if the actual labor time is higher.

> Sometimes they’re even worth using for “normal” repairs because they will sometimes bill by the book even if the actual labor time is higher.

This is exactly correct. Which is why if you aren’t sure, compare prices with your preferred mechanic first. Where I am, the best independent mechanics and shops charge more than the dealer, for various reasons.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#214

Post by tomc1985 »

wumpus wrote: post #149
SnowHill9902 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try the car. Pay cash. Negotiate. Sell yours. Choose from different brands. Chat with the owner. Get serviced.

People who like negotiations generally think they're good at it. Guess what? The dealer sells multiple cars per day. You don't know enough to be a good negotiator against them. Same thing as venture capital vs company founders. Founders found a couple of companies which do a couple of rounds each. VCs make way more investments.

Ah yes so let's ruin a good thing so the incompetent have a fair chance? Pah.

What is the point of learning and trying to be intelligent if everything around you gets training wheels put on it? Oh wait, it isn't for our benefit.

Yet another case of losing opportunities under the guise of helping stupid people.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#215

Post by medler »

happyopossum wrote: post #189
medler wrote: post #82

This article takes an off-the-cuff comment from the CEO of Ford and reads too much into it IMO. He wasn’t saying dealerships are going away; he was actually saying the opposite. The point he was making was that Ford is going to adopt some of Tesla’s practices while using the dealership network to compete with them. Here’s the quote with more context: “I believe for retail, we have to -- it's kind of like what happene…

> This article takes an off-the-cuff comment from the CEO of Ford and reads too much into it IMO. How does it ‘read too much into it’? He literally says they need to go to a 100% online order, no inventory, no negotiation sales model. That’s a HUGE a change from today.

I just think it’s an off-the-cuff comment and he probably didn’t mean it. He’s not announcing a new change in the way they do business. My read is that he’s generally saying he wants Ford to be more like Tesla. It’s not clear if any of his suggestions are even legal, given the laws in most states against direct sales (in some states there are special exemptions just for Tesla).

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#216

Post by raz32dust »

Alupis wrote: post #155
raz32dust wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would a fixed, online price end up being higher on average than what someone paid after haggling at a dealership. If anything, it should be lower because of (1) Reduced overhead, and (2) It is more closer to a free-market due to more transparency. Yes, there might be outliers where an extremely good haggler paid less, but that would be outweighed by a novice who paid way more, and the average has to be higher bec…

Why would Ford (or any manufacturer) offer cars on their website for cheaper than MSRP? What is their incentive? MSRP is a suggested retail price, which is based off the manufacturer's costs + what they believe is a reasonable margin for their vendor (dealership in this case). Ford cutting out the middle man means they can offer cars at the same exact price (MSRP in this case), but not have all the expenses dealershi…

What you are saying doesn't make sense UNLESS there is a monopoly. Let's say it costs Ford $10k to manufacture the car. Let's say their average profit per car is $2k, and the dealership gets $1k on average - which means that ON AVERAGE, the dealer sells each car for $13k. Some people might get a good deal for $10k, and some pay $16k. MSRP is likely set to $16k.

You are saying that in the fully online world, Ford would get away with the same MSRP of $16k. This is not possible as long as another competitor can produce the same car for $10k or less and charge say $12k for it. Why would any consumer go for Ford in this case?

I haven't used Carmax but that's different - their whole business is in flipping cars and they have to make enough profit to run their website on top of it. So I would assume it is always going ot be higher price than what you'd get from elsewhere.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#218

Post by buzzdenver »

Alupis wrote: post #168
buzzdenver wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you believe in competition then the logical consequence will be that the no haggle MSRP will be much more competitive than the current (well pre-COVID supply chain horror) MSRP with 5% padding built in because everyone likes to haggle and think that they are getting a good deal.

I don't follow this logic. The article says Ford is going 100% online for these cars, meaning there will be no other reference price available. Ford can charge whatever they want, so long as some people are willing to pay it - and during COVID we've seen people more than willing to way overpay on cars. There is no competition with Ford's direct sales website. None. At least dealerships attempt to compete on price.

There is competition between car companies.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#219

Post by Alupis »

argonaut wrote: post #199
Alupis wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To make it as clear as possible - Dealerships compete to win your business. They compete in varying ways, which include price and service. Who does Ford compete with if they set all of the prices and offer direct sales for an entire product line (EV's in this case)? The answer is "nobody". And we all know competition is what benefits the consumer... this is a regression, not an advancement. The dealership model can u…

They compete with other automakers. By your logic Ford can just jack up the price they charge to dealers and the dealers would have no choice but to accept it. But that's not true because Ford has to compete with other automakers.

Very few automakers make competing vehicles.

There's a reason Tesla/Rivian can charge so much, and it's not because they're so much better built or way more luxurious than others.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#220

Post by chemmail »

Alupis wrote: post #127
paxys wrote: post #39

A lot has been said about the dealership model in the last few years, and the almost universal consensus is that it is an unnecessary and predatory industry and all auto makers should just sell cars directly like Tesla does. That being said, is there any counterpoint to this view? Are there any benefits that dealerships offer today over direct sales? What would we lose if we got rid of every dealership? If there is t…

When I see "No Haggle, Fixed-Price, Online Only", I think "Rip Off", and I can't be the only one. It's not that I enjoy haggling with car salesmen, walking out the door and getting hunted down in the parking lot like an animal... I don't... in fact I hate it. But at the end of the day I get a deal I'm satisfied and comfortable with - and it's always below MSRP - far below. I think what we're seeing here is a combinat…

The only time you can get a "good deal" on a car, is for a car no one wants anyways. Go ahead try it with a decent car.
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