Earlier quoted context omitted.
What you mention as “the fun part” does sound pretty interesting. Sounds like you’re contracting/consulting? Any advice on finding assignments in the field? (For someone with a DS + non-civil engineering background)
I worked in civil engineering up until 6 month ago and every civil engineering company I know is desperate to hire people that know ML/simulation/modeling etc. Civil Engineering is seen as a deeply unsexy field compared to other tech industries and they're having a hard time recruiting.
Has the ‘great resignation’ hit academia?
211–220 of 242 posts
Re: Has the ‘great resignation’ hit academia?
#212My niece left academia for Draper Labs, where she has had a very productive career. Done far more for society than she would have, at a school. Instead of struggling for grants for her basic and applied research, often finding herself unfunded for a term or year unexpectedly, she's funded liberally and makes quick progress on important issues. Never looked back. Something is broken in Academia.
Is she making weapons?
Re: Has the ‘great resignation’ hit academia?
#213Here in the US, I expect a lot of K-12 teachers to be leaving the field. The additional demands created by Covid were the last straw for many. Their employment contracts are such that they have to give months of notice, so I expect all to be quiet until August, then panic everywhere as slots can't be filled.
(Public School) Teacher pay is largely structured to encourage retention. The salary is pretty lousy if you only do it for 2 years, but if you stick around for 40 years it is a well paying job in most States. The pay increases for seniority and the compounding interest of pensions add up to a very good salary. There is also the other problem that a lot of states require an education degree to teach in public schools…
She finally moved out of state and retired for a couple of years to get away from the principal.
I've heard and seen many variations of this.
Re: Has the ‘great resignation’ hit academia?
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
I absolutely can tell you that a History PhD studying the life of a 15th century Pope provides value to society. The value of such work has been recognised for centuries. Lots of people demand 'salaries that they cannot produce themselves'. For example, soldiers, nurses, firefighters, etc. etc. I'm not sure why you have it in for academics specifically. Universities in the UK and many other countries have been heavil…
Which value and recognition are you talking about? Their papers are almost never cited [0]. Soldiers, and defense in general, are part of the main things a government should provide (we can discuss how much, but that is another discussion). I am not sure why you say nurses cannot produce salaries. Nurses work in the private sector and provide substantial value. I do not have it in for academics specifically. In fact,…
>Soldiers, and defense in general, are part of the main things a government should provide
So is education. All developed countries spend public money on education.
>In the UK in particular, education used to be tuition-free.
That is my point. There are abundant historical examples of how a thriving university sector can be maintained without each department needing to be run as its own business.
>You are basically paying people to sit in a room and discuss something by themselves. Why does a minimum wage worker have to subsidies that?
In the UK? In the UK a minimum wage worker pays hardly any tax, so they don't subsidise much of anything. If the question is why society should subsidise that, my answer would be that it should do so if it values historical knowledge (assuming that we're still talking about history PhDs). If you are just saying "history sucks, so let's not spend money training people to be historians", then sure, that is a coherent position.
Re: Has the ‘great resignation’ hit academia?
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
I worked in civil engineering up until 6 month ago and every civil engineering company I know is desperate to hire people that know ML/simulation/modeling etc. Civil Engineering is seen as a deeply unsexy field compared to other tech industries and they're having a hard time recruiting.
Are non-PE’s treated as first class citizens? Also is there room for developers to grow in an engineering firm. It sounds interesting in a concrete way (pun intended), but it seems similar to working for a research university in that you are viewed as more of a laborer as mentioned in a recent post
The biggest problem was that the higher ups in the organisation still had a very fuzzy idea on how/when/why to actually deploy ML/data science etc. in projects, but at least they where aware of this shortcoming and working to address it.
You are going to have to 'sell' yourself and your skills and spend time convincing people that you bring real bottom line value to projects, and there is still scepticism among the old guard that data science can bring anything of value that you will have to overcome.
On the plus side I found lots of opportunities to get involved in all kinds of varying projects from crowd simulation to using ML to create predictive geotechnical models. Since no one really knows the best way to use these new tools within civil engineering I found a lot of room for doing essentially R&D.
I also found that civil engineers seem to have a much more sane view on work-life balance compared to software engineers and so the work hours and levels of work where much more reasonable than I've seen in many software companies. The flip side to this is that the pay is on the whole lower compared to software companies.
Re: Has the ‘great resignation’ hit academia?
#216Prof. from Norway here. While it sounds like the situation in the US and UK is worse than our own, I’m seriously considering moving to industry after 20 years in academia. Mainly fed up by ever growing admin, and stupid financial oversight regulations, and the general workload… and many other things that isn’t wise to complain about publicly.
Re: Has the ‘great resignation’ hit academia?
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
Which value and recognition are you talking about? Their papers are almost never cited [0]. Soldiers, and defense in general, are part of the main things a government should provide (we can discuss how much, but that is another discussion). I am not sure why you say nurses cannot produce salaries. Nurses work in the private sector and provide substantial value. I do not have it in for academics specifically. In fact,…
Number of papers published or number of citations isn't a measure of the value of someone's research. This over-reliance on metrics is a big part of what's going wrong with academia. A hundred years ago people published when they had something to say, and authors of journals had to literally beg people for submissions. >Soldiers, and defense in general, are part of the main things a government should provide So is ed…
It is the universal measure of how useful your research is. How do you measure it otherwise? Research is useful if somebody else uses it. Most research in humanities has no use. I'm not against humanities per se, the same could be said about biology, for example. I'm against forcing people to pay very high wages for doing nothing of value. Because, let's face it, academics actually make very decent wages for the zero-risk job they have.
> So is education. All developed countries spend public money on education.
I don't see university-level education as a fundamental aspect of government spending, at least not in its current form. Also, the fact that everybody does it means nothing.
> In the UK? In the UK a minimum wage worker pays hardly any tax, so they don't subsidise much of anything. If the question is why society should subsidise that, my answer would be that it should do so if it values historical knowledge (assuming that we're still talking about history PhDs). If you are just saying "history sucks, so let's not spend money training people to be historians", then sure, that is a coherent position.
'Hardly any tax' is quite a bold statement. You are clearly not on minimum wage. Try living in London on £1,300 a month. Even if they 'only' pay 20%, there is also a 20% VAT on everything they spend.
Re: Has the ‘great resignation’ hit academia?
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
And rock climbing walls, stadiums, courts, parking enforcement tech, regulations over regulations of the smallest crap. Imagine if the school was just a building with rooms for teachers to meet with students and labs to do research in. Maybe it wouldn’t be fun for the sporty people and their name wouldn’t be in a cheerleader chant but it would be very focused and efficient
You described University in every European country that I know of. A building, classrooms, teachers, exams.
Studying at an American campus is like buying an expensive timeshare.
Re: Has the ‘great resignation’ hit academia?
#219My niece left academia for Draper Labs, where she has had a very productive career. Done far more for society than she would have, at a school. Instead of struggling for grants for her basic and applied research, often finding herself unfunded for a term or year unexpectedly, she's funded liberally and makes quick progress on important issues. Never looked back. Something is broken in Academia.
Re: Has the ‘great resignation’ hit academia?
#220Universities are in trouble. I know of three that are unable to hire for senior and middle positions. They've been advertising for months. Here (UK), Brexit is partly to blame, along with post Cov19 fatigue, and aging population with many retiring. As I've said in other comments, the main problem is that academia has become hideously corrupted by "professional management" values leading to de-skilling as good people…
> the main problem is that academia has become hideously corrupted by "professional management" values leading to de-skilling as good people leave. This hits the nail on the head. Everyone I know in academia is there despite their management. One had to leave the UK for the US in order to progress her career. The ongoing pensions fiasco has produced some extraordinary responses. Some universities are threatening to w…
It's somewhat validating to see this phenomenon get attention in an outlet like Nature, but likely too little too late.
I did interview at a university in the UK before I left -- one well known to HN is my guess. My impression from discussions there is that the UK and EU has been insulated from many of the trends in the US, but at least in the UK, there has been a shift to adopting some US practices. There are rational reasons for this but my impression was that it was already creating some of the same problems as in the US. In general, my impression is that the US and UK academic sectors are starting to resemble one another much more than was the case historically.
I've gone back and forth about whether or not leaving was the right decision. For a long time I didn't regret it at all, but now I often wonder if staying was the right choice despite all the problems. It's become distant enough in time I now have difficulty remembering everything though, so it's easy to remember certain feelings and thoughts more than others.
The US university system is often held up as one of civilization's great achievements. However, to me the system is fundamentally broken. I often can't discern if that's just my sour grapes opinion, or if the US university system is somehow riding the coattails of previous decades. I'm partially saying this cathartically, but partly because I worry about the rest of the world seeing the current US academic system as something to emulate, as opposed to what it was 50 years ago.
Everything you're saying is exactly right on the money in my opinion, though. Especially about marketisation. The problem with marketisation as applied to academics, I think, is that it mistakes short-term market metrics with long-term real value.
My sense in discussing things with colleagues is that a lot of this is location-specific. That is, there are enormous pressures in academics right now, and a lot of someone's experience depends on having an environment that is supportive and constructive. If you end up someplace fundamentally dysfunctional or abusive, it's decimating to your ability to function. Conversely, if you end up someplace where there are at least some reasonable individuals at the helm, with checks and balances, and an environment of looking to help each other succeed, a lot of the problems can be mitigated. I think that could be said of almost any vocation, but in academics it's especially important because there's so few degrees of freedom.