Live data from Hacker News

The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

community.frame.work

211–220 of 753 posts

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#211
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems to be that the realtek driver issues are mostly for Mac users, which will not be really an issue for Framework users.

FWIW, I just had a realtek USB ethernet adapter take down my network twice last week when I was trying out with an Android tablet. It's part of a powered USB hub, and it works fine while the tablet is connected, but after disconnecting the tablet, the ethernet controller stays active, and about half an hour later my entire home network stops working. I had to disconnect the realtek adapter and reboot my network switc…

That's not limited to Realtek:

https://twitter.com/chx/status/1457848563199721472

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#212

why am going to pay $1100 for an i5/8gb/265ssd when I can pay $700 for a i5/12gb/1tbHDD. This whole thing reminds me of the PANDA project from early 2000s and you all know how well that project worked out. Laptop are throw aways. At the end of their life you recycle them and get a new one. The single problem I see with all these type of total upgradable devices is that you are still locked into a single vendor. Unles…

Other vendors are free to produce compatible parts. They publish physical dimensions and cad files on github.

Everything about this is as interoperable as possible, both physical and software.

Maybe no other vendor will produce a motherboard or keyboard, but it's not Framework's fault.

Second, The closest competing product to Framework is Lenovo not HP. (Despite the fact they look like a Mac's aluminum body, huge buttonless touchpad and black chicklet keys, with a Surface's screen aspect ratio.)

HP's customer is someone who would like a Surface or Mac but doesn't have that kind of cash, or just cares more about a distinctive look that isn't gamer.

Here's HP's customer: I got my mom a top of the line maxxed out HP because she will never care about upgrades or repairs or Linux or raw power, but she does care about the blingy rich bronze look, and I care enough to steer her away from Surface and Mac even though I don't care about the cost. That's HP's customer.

I WAS actually able to replace the battery in her previous Spectre (the sweet thin one with the funky hinges that looked like hoop earrings or wedding bands) to give it to my niece when I updated mom, but HP did not make that easy.

HP are premium-looking Chromebooks that run Windows.

Framework are user-serviceable open platform Lenovos.

"Why would I spend..." You clearly wouldn't, so don't. But I would. Why? goes like this:

I don't particularly care too much about AMD vs Intel, but a lot of people are asking for an AMD cpu motherboard.

Let's say Framework did not make a an AMD motherboard, but someome else did. Let's say that the only way to get a Framework was to either buy a whole Framework including an Intel mainboard I don't want, PLUS the 3rd party motherboard for $500 or whatever it is. I would rather do that, because I want that open platform. First, Framework would not make me buy the entire machine, they would let me buy everything but the main oard. But even if they didn't, that mainboard I didn't want is actually useable all by itself like a 900 horsepower raspberry pi. Or I could sell it, because it's useful to anyone else too. Or I could keep it as a backup in case I damage my prefferred board. That platform which makes all kinds of options possible, is valuable to me.

No one yet makes any such 3rd party mainboard, but the platform at least allows for it and makes it possible vs not-possible. I want that. That is valuable to me. I will pay a lot for that.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is AMD so important to you? Are there any instruction set extensions these days that are only available on AMD? I can only think of things that are the other way around - only on Intel. And if you need something niche like some SIMD extension I guess you're running a server not a laptop?

Better power handling per performance ratio, at least when compared to previous Intel generations. Better integrated graphics, especially with the upcoming line, if what AMD says holds true. Non-toxic approach to business. Dr. Lisa Su has done incredible things with that company, and I'll happily support a group that recognizes the need for experience in top tech positions vs. MBAs/Lawyers/Fund Managers/etc...

> Non-toxic approach to business.

Unfortunately it seems the pendulum swings on this one at least a bit. Unless you want a flagship CPU, you'll wait a good half year to a year to get half as much choice of budget CPUs with rather extreme handicap (cache).

Also half of them are OEM only.

Try to find a good current gen CPU for a small to mid sized NAS in their lineup, it's not easy.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#214
post #153

The Ethernet Expansion Card seems to be using USB type C connector. Can it works on non Framework computers? Also, anyone has recommendation for great affordable router with 2.5 gigabit ethernet ports for home lab setup? I've been searching for one but it seems only gaming routers include these ports. I prefer something more enterprisy (lots of options to tinker with like mikrotik or pfsense), but those usually don't…

Yep! It will work as a normal USB-C Ethernet adapter, but due to the form factor, there is risk that you can apply an excessive amount of torque to a normal USB-C receptacle if the Ethernet cable gets pulled.

It doesn't seem like a great option compared to a normal USB-C or A ethernet dongle because of that. Those are slim enough that they're basically a continuation of the ethernet cable and as a benefit also unplug when yanked. This one doesn't even fit within the normal adapter form factor of the framework.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#215
I'm now waiting for over a year for this laptop to be available in my country.

Would still really like to order one, but my patience is running out, don't have a laptop currently.

EDIT: I sound very pissed off. I know that it's hard to ship to lots of countries, it's just frustrating for me to not even have an estimation. Will I be able to buy it in 3 or 6 months? Or does it take another year? no idea.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the constraints that are blocking wider EU availability? Right now, in Europe it's only available in a handful of countries (5 of 27). I'm in Spain, and I see I can spec a perfect machine and get it delivered just over the border in France, but I can't get the same thing delivered here just a couple of hours away, which is very surprising! My understanding was the single market & customs union etc should mak…

The problem is (my guess) Logistics is hard. Amazon might make it look easy but it really isn't (and Amazon is not available in all EU countries either!). Logistics is more then just shipping, but also returns, repairs, availability, shipping time, shipping costs, where and how to keep stock. And this points affect each other, i.e. they might not have enough supply to sell to the whole EU market etc. Lastly while the…

What do you mean by "Amazon is not available in all EU countries". Do you mean like a country specific TLD? Because that is true, but order and delivery is not a problem from any EU country as far as I know.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#217
Still no retina display option. Steve Jobs made the right call over a decade ago... the only scaling that looks good after 100% is 200%. Any in-between scaling will have display artifacts.

This laptop has 150% scaling. What sort of display artifacts can you expect because of this? Go to a web page with a grid, with 1-pixel horizontal grid lines. Even though all lines are set to 1-pixel, some lines will appear thicker than others.

I blame Microsoft for this mess. Windows supports in-between resolutions (with display artifacts), and hardware manufacturers therefore manufacture in-between resolutions. Framework laptop is limited to what the display manufacturers put out.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#218

Still no retina display option. Steve Jobs made the right call over a decade ago... the only scaling that looks good after 100% is 200%. Any in-between scaling will have display artifacts. This laptop has 150% scaling. What sort of display artifacts can you expect because of this? Go to a web page with a grid, with 1-pixel horizontal grid lines. Even though all lines are set to 1-pixel, some lines will appear thicker…

besides the fact that "retina display" is a marketing term invented by Apple, I don't really see what the big deal is. I have pretty good vision and I don't notice individual pixels on my 1080p screen. More pixels means more load on the GPU.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#219

Still no retina display option. Steve Jobs made the right call over a decade ago... the only scaling that looks good after 100% is 200%. Any in-between scaling will have display artifacts. This laptop has 150% scaling. What sort of display artifacts can you expect because of this? Go to a web page with a grid, with 1-pixel horizontal grid lines. Even though all lines are set to 1-pixel, some lines will appear thicker…

It also doesn't have a touchbar and has an excessive amount of ports!

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this gets asked a lot and isn't really about this new upgraded model but.. Any news on plans for AMD models?

Framework has said many times that they won't discuss future product plans. I doubt they want to experience the Osborne Effect.

Osborne Effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect
Post reply on HN