EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications • Hacker News Board

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#211

Post by pc86 » Thu, May 12, 2022, 1:06 PM UTC

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #193

pc86 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. What makes you think Sudan (or NK, or Russia, or China) won't get their hands on this technology? 2. What makes you think every government in the entire EU will always have the people's best interests at heart? 3. What makes you think #2 is true even today? It seems like this technology could be very easy to abuse, to great public detriment. Is the juice worth the squeeze?

> 1. What makes you think Sudan (or NK, or Russia, or China) won't get their hands on this technology? their problem! they have more pressing issues already! and some of them have already implemented worse ways of surveilling their citizens. In this regards, even USA is far worse than EU! > 2. What makes you think every government in the entire EU will always have the people's best interests at heart? I don't, that's…

> > 3. What makes you think #2 is true even today?

> Because I live in EU and everywhere else I look the situation is far worse.

"It's worse other places" doesn't answer the question. The EU's government isn't perfect and I don't see any safeguards in this proposal. It's ripe for abuse.

> Funny that guns are abused daily in US

Whataboutism nonsense, nobody is talking about guns except you.

> If the filter has to be used for CSAM content, it can't be used for anything else.

Utterly fanciful. Once this exists and is in place, it can and will be expanded to other things. Eventually a government you don't like will be elected in your country, and they'll be able to expand this.

This tool in the hands of an authoritarian government is as dangerous as any firearm because it would allow them to track dissent.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#212

Post by vetinari » Thu, May 12, 2022, 1:06 PM UTC

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #106

vetinari wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the national government excuse usually is, that they do it according to EU rules, directive or whatever. Denying responsibility at all levels at its finest. There are rare examples of resistance, like the attempt of Czech government to resist the EU firearms directive by putting the right to self-defense with a gun into the constitution. But mostly they just fold over.

There was no such thing from the EU; travel restrictions were imposed by individual countries first and foremost. You call it "fold over", but if you think of a positive thing, it's cooperation. Because we have open borders - which, if you look at Brexit, is a huge advantage for trade and the like - it doesn't make sense to allow firearms in one country but ban them in another. It's a give and take situation. The UK…

UK was never in Schengen; as an EU citizen, I had to go through ID check all the time. The only difference now is that I have to show passport, national ID is not enough anymore.

Guns were never allowed to circulate freely; even in Schengen countries, you need both export and import permit from both countries to bring it into another country. Fun when you attend competitive events ;). You could argue that you could do it lawlessly, without permit, but then, you could own gun lawlessly, without permit too; the criminals won't bother, only the lawful citizens, who is targeted by the regulation, will.

It would be "cooperation", if there was a consent of the governed. Now it is just diktat. This: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lHVcvJdWIs is not so funny when you realize, how true it is.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#213

Post by nix23 » Thu, May 12, 2022, 1:06 PM UTC

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #144

hulitu wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your government who wants to control you. Or do you still think that data is collected just so that Google can give you more ads ?

> Your government who wants to control you How exactly? In Italy we had 67 different governments since 1946. What can they do with CSAM data? Government can't blackmail citizen, they can't use CSAM scans for other purposes, they can't even authorize a scan, because that's the justice system prerogative. Do you really believe that in Europe governments are in control of everything like it happens in Russia or in North…

>Government can't blackmail citizen

Why not?

>Do you really believe that in Europe governments are in control of everything like it happens in Russia or in North Korea?

Wait you think Russia is in control of it's citizen? Oh man, western propaganda seams to work even better then the russian counterpart.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#214

Post by ThePowerOfFuet » Thu, May 12, 2022, 1:06 PM UTC

crmd wrote: post #197

zosima wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't worry, as this is not about child sex abuse anyway. The legislators know, from experience, that it's hard to argue against measures to protect children from predators, and so they are free to launch controversial and unacceptable measures. Once in place, it will be extended to other purposes. The same as always.

Quoting Adam Curtis from The Power of Nighmares: > In the past, politicians promised to create a better world. They had different ways of achieving this, but their power and authority came from the optimistic visions they offered their people. Those dreams failed and today people have lost faith in ideologies. Increasingly, politicians are seen simply as managers of public life, but now they have discovered a new rol…

Absolutely brilliant series, and highly recommended. Available on the Internet Archive.

https://archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares-AdamCurtis

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#215

Post by peoplefromibiza » Thu, May 12, 2022, 1:06 PM UTC

BlargMcLarg wrote: post #210

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Toeslagenaffaire it was about fraud. And it happened in the Netherlands, which aren't exactly the cleanest of the countries (just check their ties with drug cartels money [1]), so it's Netherlanders that should be worried, not EU citizens. It happens all the time, I don't know anymore how many wrongful tax bills I have received over the past 30 years, you just show the documents that prove you're in the right (if y…

You're being pedantic and apologist for very little reason. There are still dozens of families who have yet to be reimbursed for this mistake, let alone the damage which was caused in the aftermath. Instead, we have a bunch of people still arguing what to do about the situation, all which are paid in tax money that could've been used to solve the issue already. It's not about them being evil. It's about them feeling…

> There are still dozens of families who have yet to be reimbursed for this mistake

that has nothing to do with the matter at hand, it's completely OT and, frankly, who cares?

It is not EU fault, it's Netherlands's fault.

EU doesn't control Netherlands.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#216

Post by paganel » Thu, May 12, 2022, 1:07 PM UTC

Freak_NL wrote: post #47

It's scary, because CSAM (child sexual abuse material) is very, very broad, and quite vague in its definition¹. My three year old son stayed with my parents for a week, and he was being taught to swim in their swimming pool. Of course, I get sent pictures and clips of his progress by a proud grandma, and of course, him being a toddler, he felt swimming trunks to be completely optional (and of course, they are at his…

At this point I would never send nor have nude photos with my kids (whom I don't have, but hypothetically speaking) on my phone or on any other electronic device, doing otherwise is just asking for trouble. Maybe it's not the perfect situation for parents who want to share said photos with the kid's grandparents thousands of kilometres away but it is what it is.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#217

Post by peoplefromibiza » Thu, May 12, 2022, 1:09 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #211

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. What makes you think Sudan (or NK, or Russia, or China) won't get their hands on this technology? their problem! they have more pressing issues already! and some of them have already implemented worse ways of surveilling their citizens. In this regards, even USA is far worse than EU! > 2. What makes you think every government in the entire EU will always have the people's best interests at heart? I don't, that's…

> > 3. What makes you think #2 is true even today? > Because I live in EU and everywhere else I look the situation is far worse. "It's worse other places" doesn't answer the question. The EU's government isn't perfect and I don't see any safeguards in this proposal. It's ripe for abuse. > Funny that guns are abused daily in US Whataboutism nonsense, nobody is talking about guns except you. > If the filter has to be u…

> The EU's government isn't perfect

Do you know someone or something that is?

I don't.

> I don't see any safeguards in this proposal.

then write one and propose it!

or look better.

>It's ripe for abuse.

BY WHOM EXACTLY?

AND WHY?

> Utterly fanciful. Once this exists and is in place, it can and will be expanded to other things.

Are you from the future or simply doubling down on your opinions, trying to pose them as unequivocal facts?

> This tool in the hands of an authoritarian government

There's no such thing in Europe, the closets thing to it it's Viktor Orban in Hungary.

Who is still more democratic than Trump.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#218

Post by School-Cotton » Thu, May 12, 2022, 1:10 PM UTC

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #144

hulitu wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your government who wants to control you. Or do you still think that data is collected just so that Google can give you more ads ?

> Your government who wants to control you How exactly? In Italy we had 67 different governments since 1946. What can they do with CSAM data? Government can't blackmail citizen, they can't use CSAM scans for other purposes, they can't even authorize a scan, because that's the justice system prerogative. Do you really believe that in Europe governments are in control of everything like it happens in Russia or in North…

> In Italy we had 67 different governments since 1946.

Colloquially when Americans say “government” they are referring to the entire state, including not just elected officials but professional civil servants, police, courts, intelligence agencies, etc.

You have definitely not had 67 different governments since 1946 in the sense that I think was meant.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#219

Post by nix23 » Thu, May 12, 2022, 1:10 PM UTC

stef25 wrote: post #109

OliverGilan wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It always amazes me how anyone can be technologically literate and still think world governments should be given the benefit of the doubt when it comes to things like this. I agree OP, most people in government are probably not inherently evil or malicious but why should anyone trust that these initiatives won’t be poorly implemented and cause massive collateral damage to innocent lives?

> It always amazes me how anyone can be technologically literate and still think world governments should be given the benefit of the doubt when it comes to things like this Yes I do think that. I'm very familiar with how the EU institutions work and I don't like it, so I'm no fan boy and certainly not trying to defend these kind of proposals. I realize I'm preaching to a very cynical crowd here but I just don't see…

Have you seen how well assange was treated? And yes GB whas then still in the EU.

Hell even nice sweden accused him of rape, even if they knew that it's bogus.

Spain jails you just because you want to be independent, just image that Washington jails a Texan governor for trying to be independent.

Europe is in parts not far away from the Turkish legal system.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#220

Post by weddpros » Thu, May 12, 2022, 1:10 PM UTC

Incest is the massive child abuse elephant in the room, and listening to our communications won't help those millions of children who suffer. Almost 7 million in France (1).

I'm disgusted. I'm pretty sure when they say "one child in 5,6 or 7", it's really incest in 90-99% of cases, not some internet pedophile they claim to catch.

They won't protect children with that law, because it's not the right law to fight child abuse.

[1] https://fr.statista.com/statistiques/1231341/nombre-victimes...