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Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

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Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#211

Post by marc_io »

jackdawed wrote: post #182
zozbot234 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buddhist vipassana meditation is based on deconstructing the ego altogether as well as all desires, and recognizing the illusion behind them. So if people are being egocentric, they probably have not progressed very far in their spiritual path.

You'd be surprised. Even very realized people like Chogyam can be boisterous, womanizing, drunks. There are plenty of examples of highly awakened people doing conventionally bad and egocentric things. Unfortunately, this kind of stuff holds a lot of people back, if not dissuade them completely, from trying a little bit of meditation to improve their lives. There's a lot of archetypes of this in /r/streamentry. The te…

Everything Shakyamuni has ever said is just a "finger pointed to the moon". It is only known through the memory and writings of other people, so it's sensible to take that statement — and pretty much everything attributed to him — with a grain of salt.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#212

Post by hattmall »

zozbot234 wrote: post #162
regpertom wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve heard it said to be careful. That one may find upon deconstructing their ego, and finding that it’s all an illusion, that they stare into the face of god, and that god is them staring back at them. That they are it. That they are the divine. How intoxicating. This person and the drug addict who thinks they’re Jesus are on the same wave length. The drug being a dangerous shortcut. So have they not progressed very…

The point ought to be that there's nothing overly special about "being the divine" - after all, God is everywhere. In eastern tradition, this would be called "having the Buddha-nature", or the underlying potential for spiritual enlightenment. It doesn't even mean that you have attained more power over the material world (the sort of power you might naïvely ascribe to a "God"), albeit practitioners of spiritual/asceti…

Even Christianity that is like the most basic principle. God created man in his own image. So that's basically the same as saying to know God look in the mirror.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#213

Post by unmole »

rygxqpbsngav wrote: post #76
_bfhp wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a comment. A feast for the inner reply guy: > The traditional way is to seek a guru "The" way? According to whom? Did you do it? > Some even leave everything and go to forest or mountains to practice for years. Except the Buddha and his stories explicitly advised against asceticism... > they should practice "Raja Yoga" which is also a spiritual path where one raises their spiritual plane Again, according to who?…

Have you checked BiteCode_dev's response? And still think meditation is a "scientifically quantifiable practice"? Swami Vivekananda has a dedicated book on "Raja Yoga" in detail. I recommend - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.abdula.pra... app. I am a subscriber for years and this one has the authentic breathing patterns.

> authentic breathing patterns

I'm sorry, what?

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#214

Post by bryanrasmussen »

tisdy-01 wrote: post #203
zozbot234 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting that Western Christianity has pretty much the same underlying message - you simply can't reach salvation and union with God without starting from right morals. (This might be why Stoicism with its meditative and contemplative traditions, and a similar focus on divinely-inspired "right/moral action" was a key ally of early Christianity.) Islam of course has its own Sufi traditions, the Biblical prophe…

> you simply can't reach salvation and union with God without starting from right morals. This is almost the opposite of Christianity, depending on what you mean by "right morals". Christianity says you simply can't reach salvation and be with God unless you are flawless, which is humanly impossible, so unless God does something... hence Christ.

>This is almost the opposite of Christianity,

I'm pretty sure you can find some sect of Christianity somewhere that will contradict another one completely, just consider the Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912 interpretation vs. the Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#215

Post by eveningtree »

rubyfan wrote: post #62

Can anyone actually say what “mindfulness” really means? I once met a mindfulness coach who was trying to sell me on his business where he comes onsite and coaches corporate clients on mindfulness. The pitch broke down when he couldn’t articulate to me what the hell was really meant by mindfulness.

Mindfulness is something that emerges as a side-effect from meditation. Not something that you actively aim for. I'm going to have a lot of trouble putting it into words, since this is something I got from culture, and not from specific words. Bear with me.

Here is how it feels: the brain experiences stuff "objectively".

For example: if something happens and you get angry, instead of fully being angry, you get to see that you are angry. And now you get the choice to be angry or not. Or sometimes you don't get a choice, but can clearly see it and realize that it's something you have to go through. There emerges a clear separation between your brain, your emotions and the core you.

It's not something you do consciously, it's something that your brain does by itself all the time. Like fish noticing water. Things don't really change, but you get a perception to notice and see things.

An analogy I like to use is: You are playing a 2d game. Your character exists in a 2d world. But your perspective is 3d and can clearly see what's happening.

--------

P.S.

Since you seem to be curious, keep in mind that meditation is serious stuff and needs to be given respect. Using meditation for just feeling good is like using a gun to dig a hole. Can you do it? yeah. But without gun discipline, you may end up shooting yourself in the foot.

Meditation is a tool. It exists safely only within a larger ecosystem of other things. Prescribing meditation openly without the ecosystem is dangerous.

Once mindfulness comes, the problems get more and more subtle.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#216

Post by KerrAvon »

lukasb wrote: post #206
neltnerb wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My issue with this specific concept is that lots and lots of people are lazy and instead of doing compassionate things, they "feel compassion" as a generic emotion through the use of meditation. I studied Buddhism quite a while pretty seriously, and I know that a lot of the meditations involve practicing loving yourself, and your friends, family, community, and that these feelings of love are a core thing to have in…

Yeah fair. I asked a teacher once, "seems like Buddhists don't have the best record at service, should I be concerned about that?" and he just replied "yes." That said, I wouldn't be dismissive about people learning to forgive themselves for their flaws ...

I suspect every Buddhist teacher will say yes to that question. But I don’t think it necessarily means they agree with the premise.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#217

Post by WaxedChewbacca »

rubyfan wrote: post #62

Can anyone actually say what “mindfulness” really means? I once met a mindfulness coach who was trying to sell me on his business where he comes onsite and coaches corporate clients on mindfulness. The pitch broke down when he couldn’t articulate to me what the hell was really meant by mindfulness.

No post body was provided.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#219

Post by bowsamic »

denton-scratch wrote: post #80
bowsamic wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This happens even at large zen monasteries. Truth is, Buddhism has no mechanism for distinguishing between mental illness and the usual suffering all samsaric beings experience. Therefore, Buddhist teachers cannot deal with mental health emergencies: all mental suffering is seen through the Buddhist lens

I've seen this too; guy had a bipolar episode. Teacher told him he'd ruined everything, and would have to start again. More generally, Buddhist medicine would be a good thing, as Ghandi might have put it. The heart of Buddhist medicine is that life is short, suffering is unavoidable, and that the best treatment is to teach and practice Buddhism.

Indeed, they even called the Buddha “the great doctor” because they saw his teachings as the medicine to suffering

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#220

Post by KerrAvon »

TheDong wrote: post #72
LightG wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going to be honest, this sounds like horsesh!t. In my entire life, meeting people from all walks of life (including people I vehemently disagree with, and some I would almost consider enemies, and even some zen Buddhists), when it came to the crunch, I know they/we would all have run towards an emergency as humans/neighbours. On the other hand, let me assume it's true, then it isn't representative IME.

Have you lived in a large city with a very apparent homelessness crisis, such as san francisco? The homeless in places like SF are routinely experiencing serious emergencies, invariably need money and shelter, and are passed by tens of thousands of people each day who have the abilities to help them. Of those tens of thousands of people who pass a homeless person who's clearly in need of help, perhaps 100 will give t…

I’m not a fan of SF particularly, and there are some problems unique to it, but my experience has been that individuals treating the homeless as invisible non-persons is pretty universal. Have you observed this to be different elsewhere in some large city?
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