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Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

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Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Situation wrt to teen mental health is similar in Europe, but there's a much smaller graduation debt. We have other issues here, though (speaking for the situation in Germany). I’m quite some time out of my teens at 36, but for many years now I’ve been told that all that tax (technically not a tax) I pay for my pension will not result in me getting any meaningful pension. For people who are currently teenagers it p…

You think teenagers are thinking about pensions... If they are they are probably already having mental issues because that's not something someone pre 20s should be concerned about. People in this thread need to stop projecting their problems and worldviews as universal social issues.

Eh, as a 20 year old I've been told my whole life that I'll be paying for social security but never see the money.

Same for most of my peers.

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#212
post #68

Social media definitely amplifies it, but consider the economic and social environment that teenagers have lived through their entire lives. Multiple major recessions, a global pandemic, rising inflation, housing and education getting more expensive by the day, prospect of a mountain of debt right after graduation, climate that will be unlivable in a few decades, political extremism becoming the norm, and massive gov…

Do you by any chance use social media? Is it possible that your bleak assessment of the state of the world has been influenced by it, and the hopelessness you are promoting is acquired from your media environment, and is part of a socially contagious spiral of anxiety & depression that you are passing on to others through this particular social medium?

Doctors don’t generally say to patients “yes, your life really is terrible and you are right to be anxious and/or depressed”. The nature of the illness lies in our response to the reality of the world.

In my view you could come up with a list of bad things similar to yours for any age in history. This is not a uniquely bad time to be alive. (I’d argue there has never been a better time, but that’s a separate matter). What seems to have changed is our coping mechanisms.

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#213
Imagine you were born in 1900.

When you're 14, World War I begins and ends when you're 18 with 22 million dead.

Soon after a global pandemic, the Spanish Flu, appears, killing 50 million people. And you're alive and 20 years old.

When you're 29 you survive the global economic crisis that started with the collapse of the New York Stock Exchange, causing inflation, unemployment and famine.

When you're 33 years old the nazis come to power.

When you're 39, World War II begins and ends when you're 45 years old with a 60 million dead. In the Holocaust 6 million Jews die.

When you're 52, the Korean War begins. When you're 64, the Vietnam War begins and ends when you're 75.

A child born in 1985 thinks his grandparents have no idea how difficult life is, but they have survived several wars and catastrophes.

--Quoted from somewhere

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#214
post #68

Social media definitely amplifies it, but consider the economic and social environment that teenagers have lived through their entire lives. Multiple major recessions, a global pandemic, rising inflation, housing and education getting more expensive by the day, prospect of a mountain of debt right after graduation, climate that will be unlivable in a few decades, political extremism becoming the norm, and massive gov…

Consider the early 20th century. Some ostensibly irrelevant political figure was assassinated which rapidly spiraled into the "war to end all wars" in which about 20 million people were killed, in a world population of 1.7 billion - so more than 1% of people. In relatively short order this led to the Great Depression in which over 10 years the global economy collapsed leading to mass suicide, starvation, and disorder.

And we were just warming up. After that it turns out that the war to end all wars was just the pregame show. An eccentric vegetarian artist with a knack for riling up crowds decided to declare a literal genocidal war on the world, and for some time it looked very much like he was going to win. It only ended after another 80 million deaths (about 3% of the world population this time), the deployment of nuclear weapons, and countless war crimes.

And then? Decades of people got to live in the great times where every day there was a real and legitimate concern of imminent nuclear war (which did nearly blast off multiple times) to the point that nuclear drills were a part of the classroom, and people building their own nuclear doomsday bunkers was not only not eccentric but just plain ole pragmatism.

The point of this is not just to emphasize that the past was unimaginably and exponentially worse than the present in every imaginable way, but rather that there was no widespread mental health collapse. And there was no "shielding" kids from anything, when the world was literally burning in front of their eyes. So clearly something has changed, and it's not just that things have just gotten bad or that people are now uniquely aware of that. I have my own hypothesis, but this post is already too long. I'll conclude with a song which this post reminded me of:

Song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFTLKWw542g

Lyrics: https://www.musixmatch.com/lyrics/Billy-Joel/We-Didn-t-Start...

Meaning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Didn%27t_Start_the_Fire#His...

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the mental health crisis is exacerbated by other stressors, how does that explain the following? 1) The crisis started suddenly in 2009, 2) It affects girls far more, and 3) It is occurring in many countries. Haidt brings up those points in the testimony to rule out other factors and prove that social media is specifically to blame.

1 & 3) seems to be more indicative of the fact that there was a global economic crisis at the end of 2008. I'm not following these points from the paper. 2) seems to point the finger at social media more heavily though I think, but I'm not entirely sure what to make of that but this point is convincing to me.

The financial crisis of 2008 (2007-2009?) was not that significant in large parts of the world. I was living in Finland, and many of my friends were graduating and finding jobs around that time. From our point of view, the crisis was something that happened mostly in the news and had little effect on the real world.

The depression in the early 1990s was another story. It may have hit Finland worse than the Great Depression in the 1930s.

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#216
post #68

Social media definitely amplifies it, but consider the economic and social environment that teenagers have lived through their entire lives. Multiple major recessions, a global pandemic, rising inflation, housing and education getting more expensive by the day, prospect of a mountain of debt right after graduation, climate that will be unlivable in a few decades, political extremism becoming the norm, and massive gov…

Imagine you were born in 1900. When you're 14, World War I begins and ends when you're 18 with 22 million dead. Soon after a global pandemic, the Spanish Flu, appears, killing 50 million people. And you're alive and 20 years old. When you're 29 you survive the global economic crisis that started with the collapse of the New York Stock Exchange, causing inflation, unemployment and famine. When you're 33 years old the…

Times are certainly tough at different points in history, but they are extremely mentally and emotionally taxing right now and we keep hitting new peaks. We continue to accelerate the destruction of the earth and yet nothing is being done about it. When the everyday person is obsessed with EV cars instead of composting and planting native plants in their yard instead of wastelands of homogeneous lawns and committing genocide against insects and other animals in their yard, it becomes extremely demoralizing.

People don't do anything useful about anything now, and I think that is the most depressing of all. There's rabble about stuff on social media, politicians don't do anything but move the U.S. more towards and oligarchy, and corporations keep selling us stuff to consume, which consumers then lap up.

The Internet is the single most divisive technology ever created by humanity, and it does nothing but distance us from one another. There's never been greater threats to humanity than the Internet and its woes and the already arrived environmental and climate crisis.

That's not even considering the deep financial stress people are under these days. Even just 30 years ago, my parents bought a lot and built a house for $100,000. That barely covers tuition at most universities, and a similar sized house now costs around $1,000,000 just to buy. Just as recent as the late 90s and early 2000s, gas was under a dollar. We're sitting at $4.50 now. People can't afford the number of kids people used to have and must delay even having one or two kids well into their 30s, often due to financial constraints. Minimum wage has barely doubled since my teenage years, and yet everything is exponentially more expensive. Then there is the onslaught of several other socioeconomic factors.

People, aside from the wealthy, are getting slammed from literally every direction, and there is no concerted effort to improve any of it. It's not hard to understand why people are depressed more than ever.

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#217
post #167
post #68

Social media definitely amplifies it, but consider the economic and social environment that teenagers have lived through their entire lives. Multiple major recessions, a global pandemic, rising inflation, housing and education getting more expensive by the day, prospect of a mountain of debt right after graduation, climate that will be unlivable in a few decades, political extremism becoming the norm, and massive gov…

> Multiple major recessions One. They lived through one major recession, and here it wasn't really major, and is not something they lived through recently. They were younger than 6 when it started. I've lived through two. The 80s weren't a happy time, and there are no signs that that had such an impact on teen mental health. If it did, it would be proof that the impact of a major recession is temporary. > prospect of…

> Don't try to downplay the role of internet, mobile devices and social media.

The first thing that was said is that Social media definitely amplifies it. I don’t think that’s a dismissal.. you don’t have to be on social media, you just have to hear or read or watch the news.

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just wrong. Teenagers don't know or care about recessions or inflation as it doesn't affect them. Nor do they know about the cost of housing and education. Teenagers don't care much about the government either. Social media blows up the fear about climate change (it definitely will not be "unlivable") and political extremisism. Being misinformed about things you can do nothing to change isn't good for mental…

> it definitely will not be "unlivable" Yeah, we will probably survive for the next 50 years at least. But climate events will be making life a lot harder. Droughts, floods, forest fires and tornados will be wrecking havoc in many places. Even if you don't live in one of those places, you'll be feeling the effects through shortages (as we're currently experiencing a very small taste of in Europe), refugees and politi…

> Yeah, we will probably survive for the next 50 years at least.

I feel like you are fundamentally misinformed here. It has never been the case that IPCC predicted "end of the world" in terms of climate predictions, even in the worst case. And in fact things have been improving since the worst predictions. We are currently headed to a 3 degrees C temperature increase. Which will cause global hardship on a massive level, but it's not anywhere near what's needed to wipe out even civilization let alone all/most humans.

> Even if you don't live in one of those places, you'll be feeling the effects through shortages (as we're currently experiencing a very small taste of in Europe), refugees and political instability.

The shortages in Europe are largely self-inflicted by poor vetting of business partners and "perfect is the enemy of better" behavior and have basically no relation to climate change.

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#219
Social media is bad. What is even worse is that smartphones allow people to use it anywhere, whenever they feel bored. The impact isn't massive just on mental health, but also on general productivity and people's social lives. It's just way too addicting.

I work in tech and constantly feel like moving into a forest without internet connection for these reasons.

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#220
post #68

Social media definitely amplifies it, but consider the economic and social environment that teenagers have lived through their entire lives. Multiple major recessions, a global pandemic, rising inflation, housing and education getting more expensive by the day, prospect of a mountain of debt right after graduation, climate that will be unlivable in a few decades, political extremism becoming the norm, and massive gov…

Largely agree with your analysis but you are missing one key aspect - disintegration of family and community/social support structure such as church or local youth clubs etc. Whether what you are saying as part of your analysis is the cause of this disintegration or effect I don’t know. As a society if anything we can do to better mental health, it is strengthening family and social circle and community support syste…

Yup, killing the family unit is a shot still heard.
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