Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering • Hacker News Board

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#211

Post by kanbara » Mon, May 02, 2022, 6:13 AM UTC

faeriechangling wrote: post #205

themacguffinman wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being short can be a disorder. It just so happens that picking fruit from tall trees by itself isn't considered by society to be a very necessary & important activity, while "social, school, or work functioning" is. Adults who remain too short to do things that are considered necessary & important for adults to do would almost certainly have a negative disorder of some kind. That criteria sentence from the CDC websit…

If the DSM-V definition is overly broad, and the truth behind ADHD is different, is that not fairly alarming? Currently 9.4% of children are diagnosed with ADHD[1], but we don't diagnose 9.4% of the population as having a disorder on merit of being very tall or very short. In fact, with ADHD, we're also not also counting the opposite of ADHD as a disability, so we're counting a HUGE swathe of the lower end of the spe…

i don't understand any of the points you are trying to make. it's great you can cope, either you don't have ADHD or you found ways to deal with it, but others are not you. people with ADHD struggle greatly and in a diversity of ways. a lot of people can adapt and integrate in work/social life/school way better on medication, and studies have shown the concentration and focus have increased measured cognitive benefits.

people with ADHD have decreased function of neurotransmitter activity for dopamine and norepinephrine, which is proven. i don't doubt that the future of medication will be more controlled or targeted, as we understand more, but your idea that a lack of understanding means the drugs aren't appropriate, or that ADHD isn't a disorder is basically the same thing as saying "we don't know why people consciousness exists so why bother studying it".

i personally had issues since i was not medicated for quite a number of years, mostly social and behavioural. i never was unintelligent, just had a lot of trouble focusing on tasks, prioritising, and having things in order. the pandemic and work-from-home were very hard for me, and taking stimulants again has literally opened my eyes and removed the fog of inaction. in just a few weeks i've seen huge improvements in my mood, happiness, work effectiveness, and focus, as well as thoughtfulness in conversation.

not everyone responds well to drugs, and people can cope in various ways at varying times, but that doesn't mean we should throw decades of proven methods out the window and cancel the disorder entirely. if we were only hunter-gatherers maybe it wouldn't matter, but we quite literally live in a society that demands an exceeding amount of effort 100% of the time to be successful

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#212

Post by opportune » Mon, May 02, 2022, 6:16 AM UTC

WalterSear wrote: post #200

opportune wrote: post #167

As someone diagnosed with ADHD later in life, a lot of these ADHD superpowers are just the result of taking dopaminergic stimulants. Especially the hyper focus and feeling superior to people staring out the window or failing to heads-down work for several hours straight. Yes you can hyperfocus even without stimulants, but the real superpower is having access to them so you can channel that consistently. I personally…

> As someone diagnosed with ADHD later in life, a lot of these ADHD superpowers are just the result of taking dopaminergic stimulants. I experienced them before I was aware of my issues, before had ever tried any medication.

I am responding specifically to some of the paragraphs in the essay where the author mentions working non-stop for hours straight on something in a quiet room, while their peers who were "studying" were spending some of that time chatting or bothered by some distraction.

Without medication, at least for me and I suspect almost all other people, hyperfocus is something that comes and goes at random and is rarely centered on what it should be (even if I do find it interesting, like real analysis coursework). But even regular people hyperfocus when they take adderall.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#213

Post by kanbara » Mon, May 02, 2022, 6:17 AM UTC

hirvi74 wrote: post #134

atian wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The DSM-5 defines a mental disorder as a syndrome that causes significant disturbance in behavior, emotion, and cognition. These disorders are also usually accompanied by significant distress that affects a person's work, school, and social relationships.

> causes significant disturbance in behavior, emotion, and cognition According to other people. What if I think my behavior or emotions are appropriate or justified? The people that are not like me get to tell me how I should be? Seems kind of sick to me. What about the opposite? Are the people that lack disturbances in behavior, emotion, and cognition really that much better off? Regardless, they are definitely acce…

there are no longterm effects of amphetamine use at therapeutic dosages, that's fake news.

i hate capitalism as much as the next guy (i'm literally a socialist) but i still want to be successful, have healthy relationships, plan events in my life appropriately, and not let people down by inaction, forgetfulness, or social outbursts.

fwiw i'm hugely successful and was even without medication excelling in my field and have contributed to world-changing projects. but i still was frustrated about my utility, my actions in social situations, and the issues i had with executive dysfunction.

i don't fit any mold, and could give less than two shits about "fitting in" in the general sense, but i still want to create good works, build a career, and especially do things like raise a family and enjoy my time with others. and all of those things are domains where ADHD has an effect, and where medication helps.

i've been on-and-off medicated, and there is 100% a utility in it for some.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#214

Post by kanbara » Mon, May 02, 2022, 6:20 AM UTC

hirvi74 wrote: post #178

unmole wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are the people that lack disturbances in behavior, emotion, and cognition really that much better off? Yes.

I'll never know, but I have always been of the mentality that everyone has "something." Whether it has a diagnostic label or not. I guess, in a more terse sense -- life ain't easy for anyone.

"life is hard for everyone" for you means that we shouldn't give people mental health? if people have recognised diagnoses they are entirely entitled to treatment. whether it's "i can't sleep enough" to "i'm gay and feel like my relationship with my family has struggled" to "i have a fear of airplanes" to "i can't focus and sit still".

even if there is no true neurotypical brain, the fact is that an overwhelming number (hundreds of millions of people) don't ever question their mental state or life and have no problem doing ANYTHING they want. and then there are people who struggle and ask for help.

it's pretty demeaning to belittle mental conditions as "just something everyone has" tbh

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#215

Post by asimovfan » Mon, May 02, 2022, 6:20 AM UTC

I also have ADHD and suffered my entire school and university years due to it. I have used every medication there is for it. I recommend everyone to take up meditation. Even 5 minutes a day is good. Im not saying quit your normal medication etc, just meditate for 5 minutes a day, every day. It will make a difference like day and night.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#216

Post by xlii » Mon, May 02, 2022, 6:22 AM UTC

TrackerFF wrote: post #7

I have ADHD (ADD), and was diagnosed after 30 - though I've greatly suffered from it since my teenage years. Sure, it is a big part of me, always has been, but I don't really make it part of my identity. I can't control it like a superpower, and there are serious consequences if you're not careful. I've noticed that in the ADHD community, there are some very vocal people that will wear the diagnosis with pride. I mea…

ADHD like many different things are a spectrum. You can have a slight disorder or you can have a really really strong one.

I’m saying this to a level where I personally know bloodlines where men suicide is just a thing that “will happen”. Guess what is the last year’s diagnosis on that?

I live in a society where official stats says that 0.0-0.1% of population is affected and such treatment is not needed. From multiple available treatment options (where single one has around 30% efficiency) there are only 2 available. I recently heard a joke that probably full European country has at most 2 ADHD therapists. Sure maybe you’re lucky enough to get diagnosis but then you might not even be able to treat it meds unless you emigrate. That’s why pride is important - it creates advocates. Advocates creates awareness and awareness provides solutions.

As you mentioned your diagnosis there is a chance you’re sensitive to the critique (it’s often coexisting). Keep in mind that your critique is targeting exact same people like you who struggled with it and came out with pride. Don’t take that away from people.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#217

Post by kanbara » Mon, May 02, 2022, 6:28 AM UTC

throw314_ wrote: post #37

I think I might have ADD, but since I'm a straight A student, socially well adjusted and not hyperactive I can not get any healthcare professional to take my problems seriously. I cannot do things in time. Not even things that should be rewarding and fun. I cannot start tasks until it's too late, or in the rare event I start I cannot focus long enough on them to make a difference. I cannot really explain why. I know…

i was diagnosed when i was 8 or 9, took meds til i was 15 and then not again until recently. i got mostly As and Bs in school, medicated or not. when i wasn't medicated i did get some Cs and no credit at uni when i struggled with courses i didn't put time into.

i graduated with a decent grade point, like a B+ or A-, and i got straight As in my masters degree. i got jobs all over the world and am pretty smart to not have huge issues with work or anything like that. i still have issues socially, doing work, doing work i'm good at, and all that. even if i manage to mostly get good grades.

and i went to a psych and explained my issues, and i got meds for it. just because you get good grades doesn't mean you don't have ADHD, you just found ways to cope. life isn't just getting good grades and you're fine and don't have ADHD, if that were so then a lot of people wouldn't have any issue.

keep trying, and find a good psych.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#218

Post by kanbara » Mon, May 02, 2022, 6:32 AM UTC

gfody wrote: post #79

hatware wrote: post #48

Wow, really nice article that gives practical examples of what ADD/HD looks like. I am not officially diagnosed, but I am 99% sure ADD/HD is something I have coped with my entire life. This has come up only recently with the pandemic forcing my schedule to change, and I started to realize how much the "9-5 routine" was keeping my train on its tracks and hiding any semblance of an attention disorder. It's really inter…

> wondering what your true potential looks like since adhd is treated with amphetamine which is essentially a performance enhancing drug that boosts your focus/awareness/intensity. it's probably dangerous to think of your medicated self's potential as being truer than your natural self's. seems like a trap.

and depression is treated with anti-depressants which change your mood therefore you are not your true self? what a load of bs lol.

people can _choose_ if they want medication, how they feel on it, and what it helps them with. and it helps millions of people have normal productive lives without fear of inadequacy or ruin because of dysfunction or cognitive issues.

it's great if you or others don't believe in medication, but humanity has coped with drugs that affect performance for millennia.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#219

Post by petesergeant » Mon, May 02, 2022, 6:33 AM UTC

pornel wrote: post #108

thenerdhead wrote: post #14

The part I hate most today is that if you relate to a video on ADHD/DID/Depression/Schizophrenia/etc, you will be fed the content until you convince yourself you have a “character trait”. That’s a serious problem with long term effects on society. I’m very sure I sit somewhere on the spectrum and have depressive disorder markers as well. But the last thing I want to do is to promote these traits. I am not proud of th…

Can you please stop with the "candy" trope? Here in the UK, ADHD drugs are controlled substances. They can only be prescribed as by registered psychiatrists as part of ongoing treatment with patient monitoring. There are not enough doctors qualified to do this, and as a result people who need the treatment are facing year-long queues. Don't get medical advice from TikTok, and don't form an opinion of a mental disorde…

> Here in the UK, ADHD drugs are controlled substances

They're controlled susbtances in the US too, but there appear to be a whole slew of sites in the US where you can fill out a form and they'll send you a perfectly legit scrip

> There are not enough doctors qualified to do this, and as a result people who need the treatment are facing year-long queues.

For anyone reading this who thinks they might need treatment and is putting it off, note that there are (expensive! ~£1k) private alternatives where you can get assessed and prescribed by a UK psychiatrist over Zoom with appointments as soon as today.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#220

Post by kanbara » Mon, May 02, 2022, 6:37 AM UTC

ascar wrote: post #19

TrackerFF wrote: post #7

I have ADHD (ADD), and was diagnosed after 30 - though I've greatly suffered from it since my teenage years. Sure, it is a big part of me, always has been, but I don't really make it part of my identity. I can't control it like a superpower, and there are serious consequences if you're not careful. I've noticed that in the ADHD community, there are some very vocal people that will wear the diagnosis with pride. I mea…

Personally I don't like seeing it as a regular illness. Yes it's a complication to how society wants people to function. Work 8 hours a day 5 days a week. Go to school 6 hours a day 5 days a week. Be productive in that time frame. Keep focus on given tasks. You can take medication to adhere to these artificial expectations on how an individual should function within society. Or you can live in a way that matches your…

it's a disorder when it effects how you function and how happy you are with your life. if you can live a happy life without medication, and neurotransmitter deficiencies, kudos.

some people with physical deficiencies have no issue navigating the world, and some do. same with queer folk. same with people with ADHD. sure there's a societal aspect, but there's also relationship aspects and everything else. we don't live in a vacuum. you can't look at it from the perspective of "if we were hunter-gatherers we would be fine" because that's not the reality of the world.

and fwiw there are plenty of things one can do that are not working 8 hours a day, that are not working during 9-5, that are not focus related. you just choose not to do them, or do not find the proper opportunity.

and that's why medication exists. so people _can_ do normal things and live a normal life. the system isn't great, to be fair, and i wish it were reformed, but until the glorious proletariat uprising, i'd prefer people get the mental health they need to focus on their lives and not some fictitious idea of what may be