Khan Academy launches Khan World School online high school • Hacker News Board

Re: Khan Academy launches Khan World School online high school

#211

Post by rahimnathwani » Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 4:27 PM UTC

gsatic wrote: post #75

dalbasal wrote: post #39

Online learning resources are amazing. Compared to pre-internet, the depth, quality and accessibility is amazing. It really does open an opportunity route for a lot of people. However... Institutional learning, whether it's K-12, colleges, techs or whatnot have barely changed. The same fundamental dynamics exist, whether it's tertiary sorting and prestige or primary teaching methods. Education still serves and fails…

Online resources are not very different than having access to good libraries. Great libraries have existed for thousands of years but you won't find examples, anywhere in the world, where kids are just left at the library to learn. One of the fundamental aspects of learning is practice. Teachers/coaches/guides and mentors play a big role in keeping kids on track. It's not just about the best quality content. Or getti…

> Online resources are not very different than having access to good libraries.

When I was 10 or 11, I was trying to use some operating system call on my Acorn Electron. The manual said one of the parameters had to be supplied using "two's complement". I had no idea what that was, and no idea how I might find a good explanation in the local library.

Today, a kid could find a great explanation in 2 mins, without walking to the library.

Re: Khan Academy launches Khan World School online high school

#212

Post by endisneigh » Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 4:32 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #191

endisneigh wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the education system is contingent on making students teach other students, or else? Lol

It’s not as if this isn’t already a requirement for some. https://biosciences.uchicago.edu/content/teaching-assistant-... > All graduate students are required to serve as a Teaching Assistant in at least one course for academic credit before the Ph.D. degree is awarded. Appropriate courses may be undergraduate, graduate, or medical, but must be in the Biological Sciences Division (exceptions may be made for students…

Grad school is not a requirement in the United States as far as I know.

Re: Khan Academy launches Khan World School online high school

#213

Post by ILikeMathBetter » Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 4:36 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #183

endisneigh wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what happens if they don’t want to do it?

Make their course completion contingent upon doing so? That’s a bit draconian of course, but you could also provide something positive to juice the deal instead. Incentives 101.

in my school they pay students to tutor. it was actually quite competitive. A lot of tutors I knew went on to get really good jobs right after graduation.

it works out really well for the student. instead of working a regular job during the year you get to do something that benefits your career, you build a relationship with your professors and it pays more than if you were working at the local grocery store.

https://cse.ucsd.edu/undergraduate/readers-and-tutors

Re: Khan Academy launches Khan World School online high school

#214

Post by fullshark » Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 4:43 PM UTC

I read Kahn's book: "The One World School House." I was not a fan of his vision of basically all education being run by a single technology platform, with teachers serving as localized technicians/tutors helping students interface with that technology. This seems like an attempt to make that a reality. I get that this may be better than alternatives for some people, but what I saw during the pandemic basically did little to make me doubt my position.

Re: Khan Academy launches Khan World School online high school

#215

Post by rahimnathwani » Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 4:44 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #182

So instead of wasting money on college, you can waste money on high school too! That aside I’m curious to see how this does. Education suffers from selection and survivor bias greatly.

"The program will be tuition-free for Arizona residents. Out-of-state students will pay tuition to attend."

Re: Khan Academy launches Khan World School online high school

#216

Post by skrtskrt » Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 4:47 PM UTC

photochemsyn wrote: post #174

padobson wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is directly related to the teacher-student ratio, regardless of whether it's online or not. One of Malcolm Gladwell's books made a convincing argument that reducing class size quickly runs into the issue of diminishing returns. A cursory Googling suggests there's plenty of research to back it up[0][1] The effectiveness of in-person learning may have more to do with social interaction and peer motivation. A teach…

In some of these online classes I've heard of >1000 students signing up with one professor and maybe two assistants. In that case, maybe a model would be to recruit the top students (selected early in the course based on their submitted) work) to act as tutors for say groups of 10 or so. Pitch them on the idea with "the best way to learn something is to explain it to someone else."

So like being a grad student without the abuse and poverty pay?

Re: Khan Academy launches Khan World School online high school

#217

Post by jonshariat » Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 4:54 PM UTC

spupe wrote: post #7

In some places, remote learning can be far superior to locally available education. I love the Khan Academy and I hope they are successful in this project too.

I'm surprised I had to go so far down in the comments to see this pointed out.

This is an international venture. There are lots of places in the world where no high school education is offered but an internet connection is, or like you said this offering is better.

Online learning is very different and we haven't had many years of experience to perfect it yet. My guess is we will see its effectiveness grow for a few more decades as the nuances get figured out.

Re: Khan Academy launches Khan World School online high school

#218

Post by freemint » Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 5:01 PM UTC

huitzitziltzin wrote: post #158

freemint wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In intro classes in our department, mean grades have been a whole standard deviation lower than the long run pre-pandemic average. Have you ever considered that the digital teaching methods you employed are subpar compared to those a dedicated online only teaching platform might have. I don't mean to suggest you did not try.

I think it's obvious that the digital teaching methods we employed were not effective, but there was no information available at all about what worked. Also: we tried many different things. Certainly I did! Moreover (as I replied to a different comment above) even after a year of being online the students were unable to identify things that made any of their online classes work. At that point they had resigned to the…

I don claim to have a good answer but i would ask myself a chain of questions:

Were learning materials which cover the required material made available to students?

Were those materials made available on an approachable platform?

Were those materials made available on a platform which encouraged habit formation for students to work on the material?

Are students able to track their progress?

Are students able to confirm their progress and check with where they are supposed to be if the exam dates are fixed?

Is the progress of student embedded into a (meta) narrative which ties together the lecture and provides topical humor (like a lecturer would when cleaning the blackboards)?

Are means in place to ensure passive diffusion of important information if students are stuck?

Are means in place to encourage or enforce formation of student learning groups and cooperation between students?

The traditional lecture hall model has a lot of mechanism which need to be replicated in the digital sphere.

Re: Khan Academy launches Khan World School online high school

#219

Post by blip54321 » Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 5:10 PM UTC

huitzitziltzin wrote: post #156

tkgally wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One minority data point here. I teach at a university in Japan. I have been teaching my classes exclusively online—live using Zoom—for more than two years, and overall the experience has been better than with the in-person classes I taught for many years before. The class discussions have been meatier and more focused than in person, and the students have been turning in better papers. I recognize that the results wo…

Please tell me your secret. Is there anything you do differently, relative to in person? Or do you just end up with a selected sample of super motivated students? This in particular: > The class discussions have been meatier... is a literal miracle. I think it might be this: > I am fortunate to teach small classes of motivated students with good study skills. I teach an honors and a regular section of one of my class…

> Is there anything you do differently, relative to in person?

Online, everything needs to be done differently from in-person:

- Lecture is a waste of time. Pre-made stuff will be higher-quality than anything you can deliver, and save a lot of time

- Grading should be automated as much as possible. Immediate feedback is powerful for students, as is being able to move at their own pace, have targeted remediation, etc.

- Automating stuff leaves waaaaay more time for 1:1 interaction, reviewing student work, etc.

- Audio isn't the only way to interact. Students can use chat, embedded surveys, forums, etc. There are many ways for having interactive engagement impossible in person.

- You should make heavy use of peer teaching: Breakout rooms, structured peer review, etc.

Online during COVID19 crashed-and-burned since people took in-person and tried to run it over Zoom. Good online can be better than in-person.

Oh, and details matter. Everyone should have a headset. Mute is generally bad. You should have good whiteboarding tools. Everyone should have a pen tablet ($40) or copy stand ($100). Etc.

NONE of this happened at most schools during COVID.

Re: Khan Academy launches Khan World School online high school

#220

Post by gcheong » Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 5:25 PM UTC

huitzitziltzin wrote: post #104

Very favorable comments all around from the very online crowd who comments here. I’m much more skeptical. I have no doubt this will work well for some students, but as someone who taught online for the better part of two years I can say with certainty that the experience is very different and (for the wide majority of students) worse than being in person. My colleagues and I can attest to both general learning loss (…

I'm curious how something like Chemistry is going to work. I was able to take 3 years of it at my high school and can't imagine not having a full hands-on lab component as part of the experience.