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Is my advice too mercenary?

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Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#211

Post by nmhancoc »

dlp211 wrote: post #117
sidewndr46 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no problem believing that other nations governments do a great job. I also do not live there nor am I a citizen of those countries. American government is a uniquely incompetent form of government. Despite being one of the largest & most expensive governments it gets little to nothing done. Anything that is 'done' is often done far over the original projected budget.

You're conflating things like physical infrastructure and defense contracts with welfare. The welfare that we do give, for the most part, is exceptionally well run and effective.

Why do you think this? Do you count social security as a welfare program and if so would you consider it exceptionally well run and effective?

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#212

Post by kbenson »

deltree7 wrote: post #193
guelo wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It worked and was stable for decades because unions ensured a balance of power between capital and labor. NAFTA and other pro-capital regulation broke that balance and shifted the balance towards capital.

[flagged]

Is the implication that conservatives supported NAFTA because it would reduce poverty around the world?

It's probably better to assess peoples motivations as they were at the time, not by what happened. A liberal would say they were focusing on the needs of the citizens of their own country and the problem in front of them. In any case, making this a case of liberals vs conservatives is silly, and to my view reductive.

As a citizen of a democracy you have power. Don't abdicate your responsibility, and thus your power, because it's easier to trust someone else handle it.

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#213

Post by Consultant32452 »

the_jeremy wrote: post #199
noncoml wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experiences while at Cisco about 4-5 years ago: 1st experience: Told my boss I am leaving. My boss’s boss calls me in a room , tells me he has some great projects for me and that we will work together on them. I agree. Turns out it was his last day! 2nd experience: Similar situation, told my boss I am going to a startup. Boss’s boss calls me and gives me a lecture about how it is a bad idea to go to a startup. I l…

Was talking to my manager about how there were opportunities for more money at other companies (like, 20% more, not huge amounts). She said she would work on getting comp adjusted for me, then 3 months later said she couldn't. I asked if my company would counter-offer if I got a better offer, she said no. I got an offer for a lot more (+60%). My company immediately matched. Don't trust management.

My advice is never negotiate salary like this with a current employer. Always just leave, always on good terms. Let's say you leave for 15% raise and the new company sucks? Give it a year or two. Your previous employer will probably hire you back for a 10%+ premium above your new job that you hate.

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#214

Post by at_a_remove »

If anything, it isn't cut-throat enough.

I worked in academia for quite some time, and you would think, "Well, this ought to be less of the kind of horror you can get in the private sector," but no. It was everything you could expect from any other environment.

I didn't comment in the exit interview thread, but I absolutely chortled inside when my direct manager was present for my last exit interview -- kind of a big no-no -- but these folks just lack any kind of shame. You will hear the same "A five is given for outstanding performance ... WORDS ... but we will never give fives ... MORE WORDS ... it is expected that everyone try for outstanding performance" doublethink. Watching a sixty-three year old employee get shuffled off despite decades of loyal work, well ...

Working for family? Even worse.

Currently, I expect any employer to sell me to the knackers for a Jell-O cup later on and not feel the least bit bad about it. Assume that at least the first couple levels of management are dead-eyed lizard people wearing human costumes and you'll probably be safer.

Honestly, start gathering dirt on day number one. It goes bad after a while (but doesn't decay with the rapidity that gratitude does), so make sure to update your map of where the bodies are buried. Keep your resume fresh. Make sure you can put the hurt on someone if you suddenly get the boot, fairly or not. You don't have to use any of this, but it is nice to have on hand when you find a knife in your back.

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#215

Post by kbenson »

CPLX wrote: post #200
kbenson wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that any different than some fiefdom ruled over by some noble? The whole point of democracy and elective government is that you can't rely on a system like that to be consistently good, whether it's the Duke's son squandering all the wealth and not listening to the people or a shift in management at the company. Just because sometimes there were benevolent companies that decided to contribute to their communit…

The vast majority of what makes society work is variations on the honor system. You can like it or hate it but it's better for everyone when we all agree on that.

The honor system works when there are social checks and balances that can be applied to punish socially for going against what's acceptable.

The whole point is that larger entities are shielded from some of these repercussions because of their size and power, and in some cases are almost completely untouchable by this system.

The legal system is there to catch extreme cases the social system can't feasible handle well enough. We don't just let murderers go and ostracize them, we incarcerate them and forcibly remove their rights. Some things are too important to allow social norms to be the ultimate arbiter of.

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#216

Post by willcipriano »

randrews wrote: post #119
ghaff wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Things you say probably fall into a few categories. -- "So and so is toxic." Maybe they are. But this is the last sort of thing I'm going to get into during an exit interview because this is the sort of thing that could actually come back to bite you. -- "The company has gotten so big and bureaucratic/isn't doing well/etc." Don't you think they probably know? -- "I don't agree with the strategy any longer." Wel…

Just come up with a socially-acceptable, PR-reason for leaving. Probably whatever you told the new job in their interview: "I'm leaving because of the commute," or "not enough potential for advancement," or something. The goal should be for you to part on good terms, not to take a last shot at them, which will only make them hate you.

Take the salary you are getting at the new place and add 50k. "I'd love to stay but salary + raise for moving on + 50k is a life changing amount of money for me and my family." Worst case you get a counter offer and you can decline that with "Oh, sorry the new job just offered counter + 25k" again. Might give them pause to raise the wages of the people you are leaving behind.

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#217

Post by nanidin »

joe_the_user wrote: post #153
rmason wrote: post #91

There was a time in America a generation or two ago when you could give your all to a company. Here in Michigan there were a number of small towns where a single employer would dominate. If the town needed something, like a baseball park the owner would simply write a check. If a loyal employee had a health crisis that insurance didn't cover the company owner would write a check. When there were tough economic times…

If a loyal employee had a health crisis that insurance didn't cover the company owner would write a check. Not that this didn't happen. But I should add that it wasn't any benevolent plan on the part of the owners that made things that way. It was a combination of the presence of New Deal, Unions, the threat of so-called-communism, etc and the lack of hyperdeveloped capital and commodity markets, that pushed things i…

These things still do happen - my SO was diagnosed with cancer in 2020. Her boss and the owner of the company arranged a $10k bonus, 6 additional weeks of PTO, and a 6 month paid leave of absence once she was done with treatment.

I do agree it isn't good to rely on the beneficence of overlords in general though, since they aren't obligated to continue to be beneficent.

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#218

Post by nerpderp82 »

chrisseaton wrote: post #136
nerpderp82 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NAFTA really destroyed the middle class and middle america.

The middle class are the ones who are doing fine or great. It's the working class who got screwed over.

Working class was middle class.

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#219

Post by PragmaticPulp »

beepbooptheory wrote: post #163

Small aside, reading all these conversations: I just think a lot of static gets injected into these discussions about wage/employers/comp on HN because a large majority of the commenters here are either currently business owners, or founders, or trying to be either of those. But there is also a huge contingent of people who do regular waged labor here, whether FAANG or freelance. Beyond any political differences, I t…

> I just think a lot of static gets injected into these discussions about wage/employers/comp on HN because a large majority of the commenters here are either currently business owners, or founders, or trying to be either of those

I've been reading HN for years and I would assume 90% of the comment section or more is people who only want to be employees.

I hate to say it, but HN isn't a great place for genuine startup, management, or operation advice. At all. Even product discussions are very customer-centric rather than company-centric, and companies will get roasted here for making good business decisions that don't directly benefit the users.

For example, years ago the common refrain on HN was "charge more" and encouraged businesses to raise prices, fire problematic customers that weren't contributing value, and otherwise focus on the company's bottom line. Now whenever a company pulls a "charge more" and raises prices, reduces the free plan, or discontinues services for non-paying customers it's nothing but rage and pitchforks in the comment section.

HN comments can still be useful, but it's definitely not a friendly place for actual founders and business owners making tough decisions.

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#220

Post by brimble »

dragonwriter wrote: post #141
brimble wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, like part of the reason Taiwan, say, is so much cheaper, is that wages are lower across the board. Canada? Switzerland? Germany? Yes they pay a lot worse for some jobs (software developer, and, more relevantly, doctor) but ordinary fully-loaded employee costs aren't that different from the US. Admittedly, the countries more comparable to the US tend to be more in the 60-70%-of-US-spending range, than on the low…

I was recognizing the potential problem with per capita numbers only for the purpose of specifically pointing out that they aren't misleading in this case because the same thing is there in the per-GDP numbers.

Ah, I see now. Reading is fun-damental, as they say. :-)
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