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San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

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Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#211
post #72

I am really worried by the fact that I am the unwilling tester in the Great Driverless Car Experiment. Tradition has it that when you load-test a new bridge, you put the architect underneath. I feel like this, except I didn't design those driverless cars, somebody else did. Being an experienced software engineer, my trust in the software in these cars is pretty low. And yet they are testing them on me, because I can…

[deleted]

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#212
post #72

I am really worried by the fact that I am the unwilling tester in the Great Driverless Car Experiment. Tradition has it that when you load-test a new bridge, you put the architect underneath. I feel like this, except I didn't design those driverless cars, somebody else did. Being an experienced software engineer, my trust in the software in these cars is pretty low. And yet they are testing them on me, because I can…

They've been driving for a while now. Can't you go with data from their existing rides to form an opinion? All you're going with is fear right now. Those cars are already better than the majority of drivers.

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mechanics need to be able to turn them off when they work on them or they’ll get blinded. Every car I’ve driven in the last 10 years seems to have an auto mode though. I’d be surprised if the Chevy’s these are based on don’t have an auto mode. It could be that a fuse blew here.

It could also be that some bumbling meat-man clumsily knocked the switch out of the "Auto" position. The Bolt has a truly idiotic headlight switch which always indicates "Auto" even when its been disabled by turning the switch counterclockwise. In Canada it's programmed to reset to Auto every time the car is started, but not the U.S. model. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZlYCSmtD_4

Somehow I thought they would have hooked the selector up to the AI but you’re right. This probably just got missed on the checklist when the car went out. That selector also makes it seem highly likely to be missed.

Detailers always turn headlights off. (At least they do for my car.) They probably always turn them off when they come in to be cleaned then need to be turned back on when they go out.

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#214
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No Pinto ever set foot (I mean tire) in Italy AFAICT, I think they weren't ever imported in Europe, but - seriously - I once happened to be overtaken by one of the few Lamborghini's they have, on a highway, I was going (cruising) at a "normal" speed (some 120 kmh) and had this strange "something blue" feeling in the rear mirror and by the time I realized it was the police flashing lights I heard "whoosh" and they wer…

Oops, I corrected "Pinto" to "Punto". For some reason, typing that just feels like it's a dirty word.

I see, that makes sense now.

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#215

Being used to riding motorcycles in the US, why are headlights not always on for all vehicles at this point? LED bulbs last a very long time and there is little reason to not have them on during the day. I know, it’s much more fun to anthropomorphize the car in this case, but the simple solution is to just hard wire them.

Mechanics need to be able to turn them off when they work on them or they’ll get blinded. Every car I’ve driven in the last 10 years seems to have an auto mode though. I’d be surprised if the Chevy’s these are based on don’t have an auto mode. It could be that a fuse blew here.

The same cars sold in Canada have the tail and head lights on when it turns dark since September 2021. If the mechanic is scared for their eyes they can just have well lit area to work and the lights will not turn on.

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#216
post #200
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And every drunk/elderly driver -- the car's decision to move after a traffic-stop felt very much the behavior of someone with impaired cognition.

Anecdote: There was an old lady living nearby who despite being 80+ years still driving around in her 20 year old car. She literally ran over traffic cones and ... a child on a tricycle [1] and never got prosecuted. She recently passed away ... sad, but the streets around here are definitely safer now. (This was in Germany just for reference) [1] The child was fine it was a low speed collision ... but still ...

There was recently an accident in Miami Beach. Elderly woman driving a Bentley reversed into a terrace restaurant. Killing 1 and injury 6, including a 3yo [0]. No charges filed because being senile driver (and voter) is not against the law.

[0] https://www.local10.com/news/local/2022/02/25/recalling-trag...

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#217
post #72

I am really worried by the fact that I am the unwilling tester in the Great Driverless Car Experiment. Tradition has it that when you load-test a new bridge, you put the architect underneath. I feel like this, except I didn't design those driverless cars, somebody else did. Being an experienced software engineer, my trust in the software in these cars is pretty low. And yet they are testing them on me, because I can…

We are all unwilling testers of every new teenage driver who hits the road.

A human being is not a software or engineering project

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#218
post #55
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is relevant, though. There are traffic laws and regulations in place for human drivers and this incident poses a conundrum: how are minor transgressions handled with autonomous vehicles? Who gets fined? The owner? The manufacturer? Do the rules not apply to machines or to a lesser degree and if so, why? Lots of interesting legal questions that are much more relevant in practise than hypothetical (and IMHO comple…

I think it is reasonable that the owner or operating entity gets the fine. Then they can sue the manufacturer or service provider for any issues.

I would venture that manufacturers should prevent drivers from breaking the law when possible. For example, autonomous cars rolling stops and speeding should not be possible.

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#219
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alright sure, I guess so. Neither of us have any hard data to back up our opinion so I guess it turns into a debate of feelings, which will lead neither of us anywhere. What I do know is that as of May 2021 there were 665,380 police officer employed in the US, and trying to generalize all of them in any way based on a few highly edited videos is absolutely not a valid approach given the standard practices in data sci…

Look up the per-capita number of deaths caused by U.S law enforcement officers vs other countries. Then look up the per-capita number of people put in hospitals by U.S. law enforcement officers vs other countries. Then look up the consequences U.S. law enforcement officers face when they harm or kill. Also look up their relative training. Finally look up most dangerous professions and see where law enforcement ranks…

That is not a valid citation, it immediately starts off by illustrating it's own political prejudice. The fact that they don't link directly to their sources is also questionable. They say they use Source: https://www.prisonpolicy.org/data/ (among others) but I don't see any data for some of the numbers they're projecting.

It's also not quite fair to analyze this data without also taking into account the prevalence of violent crime in general at each country in question. Of course a country with more violent crime will result in more violent policing.

I'm not saying that it doesn't make any valid points, but you can literally make any profession or population of people look bad if you cherry pick data-points and provide politically biased commentary while also not explaining co-factors or context.

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does sound silly at first, but I think suspending the one car is actually a rather elegant solution on several counts. 1. Easy to implement 2. Doesn't punish fleet scale (compare: suspending the whole fleet means a fleet that's twice as large would be suspended twice as often) 3. Punishes the fleet owner in proportion to the frequency of the error 4. Is exactly correct when the cause is really a hardware problem s…

> suspending the one car is actually a rather elegant solution If the software in a commercial aircraft were to be found defective, would we really be OK if only the individual aircraft in which the fault manifested itself gets grounded (assuming that aircraft isn't itself already on the ground in thousands of pieces spread all over a hillside...) Surely the FAA (or international equivalents) would issue an airworthi…

It's unreasonable to expect airliner reliability from self-driving cars when cars driven by humans are accepted despite being 100 times more dangerous.
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