Deno Is Webby • Hacker News Board

Re: Deno Is Webby

#211

Post by dmitriid » Sat, Mar 19, 2022, 6:29 AM UTC

int_19h wrote: post #210

dmitriid wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, this is kinda unusable for any corporate setting where all dependencies, including transitive ones, are downloaded from a private server.

Er, why? You'd just set up an import map to point it at your private server.

> You'd just

Ah. The enievitable "just".

And how exactly do you set the import map to point to the private server for the transitive dependencies?

Deno's own docs don't bother with such trivialities and show a very toy example, of course, https://deno.land/manual/linking_to_external_code/import_map...

Re: Deno Is Webby

#212

Post by xigoi » Sat, Mar 19, 2022, 12:58 PM UTC

gavinray wrote: post #69

dexwiz wrote: post #4

This is nice, until its not. I have spent a fair amount of time over the last several years trying to make node act like the browser, or vice versa. It's doubly confusing to juniors who don't understand the difference between a language and a runtime. alert() looks like a standard function and should be specified by the ECMAScript Language Specification. But its actually specified by the HTML standard, because its Wi…

This has also unfortunately been my experience, even when working with developers that have several years of experience writing JS. There seems to be a big gap in knowledge when it comes to boundaries between the language specification, runtimes, and innate abilities. People consistently confused about why they can't use JSX without a build-step, not understanding that JSX isn't "real", why doesn't fetch() work in No…

It doesn't help that JSX feels like it should be a part of the language. I'd really expect the main programming language of the web to have first-class support for HTML.

Re: Deno Is Webby

#213

Post by playpause » Sat, Mar 19, 2022, 5:19 PM UTC

galaxyLogic wrote: post #207

playpause wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure that “CDNs aren’t supposed to go down” is a very reassuring point, nor one that Deno’s authors would make in its defence. Deno’s vendoring approach isn’t like a stopgap in case third party servers go down. It’s the ’right’ way in Deno, and is another brilliant fix to Node’s approach. Node always makes you go through a formal step to install a dependency - and then you’re still reliant on npm’s CDN being onli…

> you’re still reliant on npm’s CDN being online during your builds Why? I'm building my program out of components in my node_modules -folder. Why do I need internet?

I mainly meant CI/CD builds. Or any future build on a new machine.

Re: Deno Is Webby

#214

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Mar 20, 2022, 5:28 PM UTC

playpause wrote: post #213

galaxyLogic wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you’re still reliant on npm’s CDN being online during your builds Why? I'm building my program out of components in my node_modules -folder. Why do I need internet?

I mainly meant CI/CD builds. Or any future build on a new machine.

[deleted]

Re: Deno Is Webby

#215

Post by seanp2k2 » Mon, Mar 21, 2022, 2:32 AM UTC

o_m wrote: post #177

seanp2k2 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

speaking of next.js, it's always fun to watch web tech come full circle back to "maybe we should render this stuff before we send the bits, since servers and CDNs are real real good at sending bits real real fast, instead of making everyone render the same static stuff a billion times per day client-side". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movable_Type was generating static blogs back in 2001, and that's still a great id…

The javascript community is starting to move away from that now to just using server side rendering (with hydration). Static site generation works fine on smaller websites but gets really slow as the site grows.

I know it's probably not universally the best approach, but I think that with sensible blocks for content and Incremental Static Regeneration, even sites with many many pages can be statically generated very quickly.