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Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

thetimes.co.uk

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Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#211

Post by nmz »

dev_by_day wrote: post #188
mrguyorama wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll stop laughing when Fox News is no longer the most watched cable news outlet in the country. A self described entertainment channel, who said under oath "no rational person would believe the things we say" I think CNN would try to hide under "entertainment" in front of a court of law, but have they actually been dragged in front of a court for lying?

MSNBC has used the same "entertainment" defense when it was sued for defamation. All news media organizations use this defense, its not unique to Fox. https://greenwald.substack.com/p/a-court-ruled-rachel-maddow...

There's a clear distinction between any "Person's show" vs "channel news". I don't expect bill maher or the Oreilly factor to be news either.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#212

Post by rovolo »

EtherTyper wrote: post #46
pavlov wrote: post #9

It's good to remember that the previous American president also waged a war against every media outlet he didn't like by claiming they were "fake news." It's the same authoritarianism in different stages. And if you think nobody in America wants to jail journalists and media CEOs, go look at any forum with a substantial amount of Republicans talking freely.

Or for a more concrete example, look at how both Republicans and Democrats are treating Julian Assange. Investigative journalism and whistleblowing are under attack by all political factions and by the justice system, today. We cannot treat anti-free-press authoritarianism in the West as an "early stage" or tomorrow's problem.

A difference is that Assange/Manning had to be spreading something true to be charged, whereas this targets anything "false".

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#213

Post by crocodiletears »

pessimizer wrote: post #94

What are the odds the same law will spring up in the US, but be good when we do it?

Probably in the EU, but that stuff gets squirreled in through private institutions here. Information clearing-houses like Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, etc. will take it upon themselves after encouragement from the media and the government.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#214

Post by ryandrake »

dev_by_day wrote: post #207
ryandrake wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

News publications have to decide what is and isn't newsworthy, and it could be that this one just doesn't meet the bar. I know the right really really wants it to finally take off and gather steam, since they invested so much into it. It's a hard pill for them to swallow that HunterBidenLaptop just not that interesting or important. Kind of like Hillary's E-mails. At the end of the day nobody really cares about them.…

You asked for examples of censorship and it was given to you. Irregardless of Greenwald, you can't deny twitter and social media outlets banning a New York Post journalist(and the White House Press Secretary) for sharing that story was not egregious censorship. Banning articles from journalists is censorship. Period.

Sorry, but I didn't ask for anything upthread. You might have meant to reply to someone else. Trying not to get involved with a flamewar, but it should be noted that there are many possible explanations of a paper's editorial decisions that do not invoke censorship.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#215

Post by gre »

powerslacker wrote: post #181
gre wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was Elizabeth Holmes brilliant for defrauding Silicon Valley for over a decade with Theranos? By your standards, yes. If Solzhenitsyn writes a brilliant but mostly exaggerated and fictitious account of Communist Russia, do you really want to celebrate this achievement? I do not and that's why I posted.

> Was Elizabeth Holmes brilliant for defrauding Silicon Valley for over a decade with Theranos? By your standards, yes. It's not just my standards. I could be wrong here, but I think most people would find her brilliant. That's part of why her fraudulent behavior was so successful. Not sure you meant to, but you've dodged my main question. Why should I factor in his antisemitism (alleged or not) when considering his…

He is brilliant, sure. This is the problem.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#216

Post by dev_by_day »

ryandrake wrote: post #214
dev_by_day wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You asked for examples of censorship and it was given to you. Irregardless of Greenwald, you can't deny twitter and social media outlets banning a New York Post journalist(and the White House Press Secretary) for sharing that story was not egregious censorship. Banning articles from journalists is censorship. Period.

Sorry, but I didn't ask for anything upthread. You might have meant to reply to someone else. Trying not to get involved with a flamewar, but it should be noted that there are many possible explanations of a paper's editorial decisions that do not invoke censorship.

To clarify I gave an example of censorship first and it was ignored by you to create a a long winded argument about Greenwald. You never refuted the point that the original story was banned (even before Greenwald was brought up) or that leftist bias may have factored into there choice to not publish that article that turned out to be credible. Intercept is a left bias rated outlet https://www.allsides.com/news-source/intercept a story about potential corruption from a candidates son is not the same thing as a "cousins recipe". That was a distasteful strawman.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#217

Post by signatoremo »

pavlov wrote: post #9

It's good to remember that the previous American president also waged a war against every media outlet he didn't like by claiming they were "fake news." It's the same authoritarianism in different stages. And if you think nobody in America wants to jail journalists and media CEOs, go look at any forum with a substantial amount of Republicans talking freely.

It’s also good to remember that Donald Trump is no longer the president, all of the fake news that he didn’t like still made it to the public, and none of the journalists he didn’t like are in jail, or killed.

Now that is out of the way, should we switch our focus back to how Russia suppress any domestic news about the ongoing Ukriane war? Or “special operation” as it’s only allowed to be called?

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#218

Post by crocodiletears »

crocodiletears wrote: post #213
pessimizer wrote: post #94

What are the odds the same law will spring up in the US, but be good when we do it?

Probably in the EU, but that stuff gets squirreled in through private institutions here. Information clearing-houses like Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, etc. will take it upon themselves after encouragement from the media and the government.

Punctuates my point:

https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/3/22960223/reddit-ukraine-ru...

https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/3/22959636/spotify-removes-r...

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#219

Post by micromacrofoot »

dev_by_day wrote: post #195
micromacrofoot wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please provide a single example of a media agency that is barred from publishing content because a "leftist" disagreed with it.

The Hunter Biden Laptop story was openly censored, even when put forward by a journalist with the Post and Biden has admitted that laptop may have been his. https://nypost.com/2021/09/21/the-hunter-biden-laptop-is-con... https://www.politico.com/newsletters/playbook/2021/09/21/dou... Leftist bias at the intercept prevented Greenwald from publishing a story about it as well https://nypost.com/2020/10/29/glenn-greenwal…

When a media agency internally decides not to publish something it might be biased, but that's generally not considered censorship. Censoring can be biased, but not all bias is censorship.

Russia participates in censorship on a state level with its own state-run media agencies. These things are not equivalent. The Hunter Biden story is widely reported by numerous American media outlets.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#220

Post by dev_by_day »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #219
dev_by_day wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Hunter Biden Laptop story was openly censored, even when put forward by a journalist with the Post and Biden has admitted that laptop may have been his. https://nypost.com/2021/09/21/the-hunter-biden-laptop-is-con... https://www.politico.com/newsletters/playbook/2021/09/21/dou... Leftist bias at the intercept prevented Greenwald from publishing a story about it as well https://nypost.com/2020/10/29/glenn-greenwal…

When a media agency internally decides not to publish something it might be biased, but that's generally not considered censorship. Censoring can be biased, but not all bias is censorship. Russia participates in censorship on a state level with its own state-run media agencies. These things are not equivalent. The Hunter Biden story is widely reported by numerous American media outlets.

> The Hunter Biden story is widely reported by numerous American media outlets.

And that story was banned on social media unfairly(this banning was cheered on by Dems and left leaning folks), even though it turned it to be credible later.

It was egregious censorship is the main point I am making here.

As bad as Putin? No. Was it bad? Yes.

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