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Not everyone should meditate

joshcsimmons.com

211–220 of 335 posts

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#211
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just something that happens once you learn to see the thoughts themselves arising, rather than feeling like you are thinking them. This occurs automatically, once you start meditating, typically within just a couple weeks even for those people (like me) who "don't get it" at first. Source: started meditating a few months ago.

If choices and thoughts just happen, then what kind of agency does the self have?

What is this "self" of which you speak?

It, too is a creation of the unconscious mind. It tends to stay conscious for a period of a few minutes, then fade for a few seconds while we scan the environment, then it recreates.

You can track this in an MRI scanner with the "default network", or by meditation, or by psychedelic drugs (careful with that last one).

Then realize that the "death/rebirth" of the self occurs multiple times per day, not once per life, and re-think how you understand religion.

And each re-creation of self can be a new entity, a chance to drop an old thought/habit and pick up a new.

You should have some attachment to earlier "yous", love is real and powerful and you should love yourself, but those prior selfs are not the totality of you and you can also love without attachment, mark some of that prior self as past and gone never to return.

My wife threw out some cut tulips this morning. They still had their petals, but they were cut a week ago and she thought they were fading. She really loves tulips.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#212
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Detachment is a tenet of Buddhism, not an effect of meditation.

Note that the tenet of Buddhism is non-attachment, not detachment. They are different.

Traditional sutric Buddhism was definitely about detachment (or “renunciation”); you’re supposed to never have sex and if you’re eating food you should imagine it’s a rotting corpse so you won’t end up enjoying it.

The presentation of Buddhism as chill and peaceful and all about meditation is a modernization to keep it alive after the white people found it.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#213
post #29
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What sort of meditation practice did you do?

I was never initiated or dedicated myself to a specific practice. I can say today it was a mix of mindfulness and practical Vipassana. I think one of the things people complain about when it comes to meditation is concentration. I was not one of those people. It came extremely natural to me.

The same for me - I found mindfulness meditation easy and it’s concerning that it comes with all these “relaxation” “stress reduction” “empty your mind” memes. I don’t need that, I need a technique for the opposite of that.

Unfortunately there’s no good secular Tantra.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#214
post #20

This is a great perspective. I know what the author means with it, too. I spent 5 years in daily meditation practice (twice a day for 20 minutes) and it completely altered my state of mind. I was a naturally introverted person when I started, though I believe that meditation really stepped it up a notch for me. The strange thing about meditation and the idea of living in the present is that it completely transcends y…

> It is not in human nature to fight with the inner workings of your own psychology This is not something that meditation should ever be about. Meditation is about exploring the inner workings of your experience, in a way that ultimately aims towards equanimity. It requires some deep (and continuing!) experience in practical ethics (turns out if you really learn to care about other sentient beings around you, it's a…

I know what you're talking about, and I went through 3(!) major episodes of that kind. Of course, in the end I came out a much better person with a lot of weight lifted off of my shoulders.

Also, I was being very conservative with my comment and it is impossible for me to truly highlight my experiences without writing a book about it. I can say that I met a lot of very interesting people, educated and wise people who helped me a lot.

Actually, if you look at the old texts from Hindu Rishis and Swamis who lived throughout India - most of them talk about teachers appearing if you have the correct discipline.

This was my experience.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The strange thing about meditation and the idea of living in the present is that it completely transcends your life experience. It is not in human nature to fight with the inner workings of your own psychology, and for me - meditation really amplified all that I had been trough or was going through at the time. I really don't understand why the world just accepts that meditation as a whole is not just another versi…

> I really don't understand why the world just accepts that meditation as a whole is not just another version of snake oil. I don't know what world you're in, the 'meditation is eastern/new-age woo' seems to me very much the default outside of a certain Ram-Dass/Alan-Watts/Hari-Krishna crowd.

Why not say all exercise is fake? The mechanism isn’t very different.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#216
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strongly disagree. There's more to meditation than just sitting quietly. I'd say it's more analogous to breaking out of a sandboxed VM and gaining read/write access to the underlying OS and kernel. My personal anecdote - I developed a difficult-to-control, anxiety-inducing thought* while dabbling in meditation a couple of years ago. I experienced a week or two worth of extreme anxiety, and had a panic attack. To this…

> an involuntary, difficult-to-control channeling of my focus/perception I'm really curious about this. Say more?

It sounds like intrusive thoughts. Some (a lot of?) people have thoughts that pop up in certain contexts where they are incredibly unwanted and they can be disturbing to experience.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#217
post #107

For me, meditation started a fundamental shift in how I think about free will, and oddly nobody I've mentioned it to in real life has felt this. I used to feel very in-control of my own mind, but after intentionally sitting and monitoring for thoughts, labeling those thoughts, etc, I became sensitive to how thoughts can really come out of nowhere. You can't predict what you will think next. That strikes a little deep…

My experience might be similar in a way, in that when I started meditating I became aware in a more direct way of how self-referential my mind was. It does things, but then it also does things that can observe it doing things. That is both interesting and liberating, in that there are processes I can't control (which I think aligns with your feeling of lack of free will), but also processes which I can can control. It is quite comforting to feel like I'm not trapped on a single level of thought, which is sometimes uncontrollable.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not nuts, it's Christian. The author states he is a Christian. Some Christian sects think that Yoga and meditation are rituals that open up the dark side. I hear all the time how meditation lets the demons in. 6 Reasons to Reject Eastern Meditation and Yoga https://rosilindjukic.com/eastern-meditation-differs-biblica... I'm bipolar and I meditate - I sit queitly, focus on my breath and try to let my thoughts qui…

I don't know. They're Christian but their argument is more nuanced than just thinking meditation is opening up to the dark side. I think it's worth talking about, especially given the experiences shared by other posters in the comments.

> their argument is more nuanced than just thinking meditation is opening up to the dark side

Is it? Viewed through that lens, it doesn't seem like there is a lot of nuance.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#219
post #20

This is a great perspective. I know what the author means with it, too. I spent 5 years in daily meditation practice (twice a day for 20 minutes) and it completely altered my state of mind. I was a naturally introverted person when I started, though I believe that meditation really stepped it up a notch for me. The strange thing about meditation and the idea of living in the present is that it completely transcends y…

I'm sorry, but this is such an extreme example. You should not overdo anything, be it meditation, gaming, playing, reading, any sport, even drugs. Drugs also give you a state of mind that, when taken to the extreme, can harm your social life and well-being. That is not a problem specifically of meditation. You can safely do anything up to the point that it benefits you. The moment your well-being suffers, or you negl…

That's what I did. I mean, my story is quite unique in that I never knew what meditation was (or religion, to be honest) and it just fell into my lap.

I think, looking back I can safely say that it did help me address a lot of emotional trauma. I didn't exactly have a gentle upbringing and I somehow entangled myself into all those memories.

Meditation helped me to clear the air, but as you say - it blindly became a somewhat of an addiction. So I stopped and started focusing on other things. And I still have a long way to go.

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