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Lenovo announces the first Arm-based ThinkPad

arstechnica.com

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Re: Lenovo announces the first Arm-based ThinkPad

#211

Post by smoldesu »

alphabettsy wrote: post #203
smoldesu wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

T460s user here, on Windows (and Hackintosh, for the sake of bad comparison), my system idled ~40-45c and the fans also ran constantly. Put Linux on it, add auto-cpufreq, and then it idles ~27c (30c with external display). No fans unless I launch games, have heavy network usage for >5 minutes, or compile something. I'd probably give the Macbooks (or this new Thinkpad) a closer look if I didn't work with Docker consta…

Why is Docker an issue?

Well, for starters, virtualizing anything on MacOS is a pain in the butt. It's an open secret that Docker on Mac has performance issues, kernel interface problems and general compatibility hiccups that don't exist when the host is running Linux. Then there's the fact that quite a number of Docker containers aren't ARM-ready, and even the ones that are won't be an accurate portrayal of how they'll behave on other arches (most systems I deploy to are still x86).

Like I said, ARM may well have it's day, but right now it's just full of compromises that I simply can't make. So long as x86 benefits from the same big.LITTLE architecture that ARM has been transitioning to, I don't think I'll really have much use for another arch until RISC-V hits the mainstream.

Re: Lenovo announces the first Arm-based ThinkPad

#212

Post by blibble »

pjmlp wrote: post #201
blibble wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Chromebooks aren't Linux pretty certain they are let me guess... Android phones aren't Linux either? or the millions of Dell/HP servers running nginx/Java/Postgres/...?

> Let me guess... Android phones aren't Linux either? Exactly, ask the Termux guys how much fun they are having obeying to this set of API restrictions, https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/stable_apis Do you see any Linux APIs there? I don't. And just for the case you are feeling clever, https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2016/06/improving-... > or the millions of Dell/HP servers running nginx/Java/Postgr…

how many raw NT kernel APIs do your typical Win32 programs call?

probably zero?

so I guess Win32 programs aren't really Windows programs then?

Win32 running on top of NT is no different to the Android API running on top of the Linux kernel

Re: Lenovo announces the first Arm-based ThinkPad

#213

Post by dasKrokodil »

sbarre wrote: post #157
dasKrokodil wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but if you're having two windows side by side, the wider 16:9 will give you more horizontal space to do so. One more thing about display sizes and aspect ratio: Since display sizes are usually given by the length of the diagonal, those aspect ratios that are closer to a square (1:1) will have a bigger area for the same diagonal. With the same diagonal length, a 16:10 has a ~5% larger area than a 16:9, and a 4:3…

In most cases that I've seen, a 16:10 vs 16:9 display has the same pixel width (the 16 part) part and more vertical pixels. So you were never actually sacrificing width as you claim. I've had 3 16:10 panels in the last 10 years and this was the case each time: 1920x1200 (vs 1920x1080), 2560x1600 (vs 2560x1440) and now a 3840x2400 (vs 3840x2160). 16:10 monitors were out of fashion for most of the last 10 years, but ar…

> In most cases that I've seen, a 16:10 vs 16:9 display has the same pixel width (the 16 part) part and more vertical pixels. So you were never actually sacrificing width as you claim.

Sure, that's true for the pixels (which might also be the more important part), but the actual width (inches) is still bigger on a 16:9 (for the same diagonal).

Re: Lenovo announces the first Arm-based ThinkPad

#214

Post by vladvasiliu »

pjmlp wrote: post #186
vladvasiliu wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree WSL2 is pretty good, and it's great that it's available on Windows, you still have to put up with the day-to-day annoyances of the OS. The general UX is the main reason why I don't use Windows. I actually gave it an honest try in 2020. I was pretty excited about Windows terminal, the inclusion of OpenSSH (I always hated Putty) and even went on the insider channel to test out WSL2, with Docker desktop an…

I moved back from a Linux zealot into Windows, because the day-to-day annoyances of the OS running on Laptops, and for graphics programming, are much more berable on Windows. Running Linux on VMs since 2012, since VMWare made it painless to do so.

It's funny how varied experiences can be.

I've been running Linux on my work laptops since 2018, after a long stint on MBPs. They've both worked perfectly, even though the manufacturer doesn't support Linux at all. The only thing that didn't work was the fingerprint reader on the previous one. On the new one it works, but I don't use it since it's not in a practical position.

I'm getting the same kind of battery life as on Windows, Bluetooth headphones work great, it actually sleeps when I close the lid, etc.

The current one actually worked better on Linux than on the pre-installed Windows. For some reason, Windows couldn't get the brightness all the way up, even on battery power and "performance" mode.

I don't do anything graphics-intensive, though. I'm quite happy with the integrated GPUs. Although on my desktop, I have a Radeon that I use for gaming, and it also works great. But it's true that I specifically avoided Nvidia to not gamble on Linux support.

For the curious, the laptops are HP ProBook 430 G5 and 845 G8.

Re: Lenovo announces the first Arm-based ThinkPad

#215

Post by schipplock »

ihateolives wrote: post #170
schipplock wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Thinkpad E14 Gen3 is quiet most of the time. My T470p is boiling my hands and the fan is constantly whirring (I still like it :)). But I agree, Apples MacBook is of a different kind. The only time I heard the fan was when playing Metro Exodus and when I ran cinebench :). My MacBook Pro outperforms every other computer in my possession. But I'm still interested in this Thinkpad, because I'm not too happy with macOS…

Btw, how is E-series doing for you? I've had X and T for last 20 years and I wouldn't've thought about getting E. I've thought of them as too fragile to lug around. Years ago I broke one early 14" Yoga plastic bottom just packing it too tightly so I've stayed with T's and X's.

My E14gen3 feels absolutely solid and sturdy. I mean, the E14s are not _that_ cheap :D. I wanted a Ryzen CPU, keyboard backlight and a fingerprint sensor. Also the keyboard is great. Battery life is great as well.

Re: Lenovo announces the first Arm-based ThinkPad

#218

Post by chaosharmonic »

UltraViolence wrote: post #161

Why are they doing this? Windows RT laptops flopped almost a decade ago due to the lack of software, and the landscape hasn't changed all that much AFAIK.

The difference is that, relative to the days of Windows 8, they've significantly diversified the ways you can target Windows, directly and otherwise:

- IE is finally dead, and shipping a downstream Chrome build in the form of Edge gives Win10/11 not only a revamped WebView but platform-level support for PWAs (I cannot stress enough how much of an impact there is here just from how much the Web has evolved as a platform, and as a Linux user this cuts both ways tbh)

- To this same point there's also a first-party React Native build, allowing devs that are already shipping mobile apps to extend those to target desktops

- .NET has since been open-sourced, gone cross-platform, and picked up native ARM support

- Windows Subsystem for Linux, and now Windows Subsystem for Android, let you reach outside the Windows ecosystem entirely (the latter of which, interestingly, should also compound over time with the various efforts that Google is finally making again to make large form factors viable on Android)

- Project Reunion exists now, for the stated purpose of providing a common set of APIs that Windows developers can access

That last one alone, btw, makes the landscape inherently different from WinRT, which removed Win32 support entirely and only allowed you to run UWP apps.

Re: Lenovo announces the first Arm-based ThinkPad

#220

Post by bogwog »

mrlemke wrote: post #207
Hinrik wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>True, but if you're having two windows side by side, the wider 16:9 will give you more horizontal space to do so. I don't know about you, but I don't read two pages of text at the same time.

You've never referenced documentation while writing or programming anything?

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