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Why not hire part-time developers?

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Re: Why not hire part-time developers?

#211

Post by anitil »

dvtrn wrote: post #27
kube-system wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, tech consulting firms are very friendly to contracting arrangements. They tend not to be stuck in a “butts in seats” culture because of how they operate with their customers.

I've long suspected this. Question for anyone who wants to take a stab at it: how, as someone wanting an 'in' to the consulting world, to best find and separate companies that are actual consulting firms and not just burn-and-churn MSP shops that carefully and sometimes convincingly disguise themself as such?

> burn-and-churn MSP shops

What does this mean?

Re: Why not hire part-time developers?

#212

Post by [deleted] »

issa wrote: post #105
TrackerFF wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll throw out a typical day for me, a data analyst: 0800 workday starts 0800-0830 daily standup 0830-0930 check and reply to emails *0930-1100 ACTUAL WORK* 1100-1130 lunch 1130-1200 check and reply to emails 1200-1300 meeting with [some product] team over 1300-1315 coffee break with colleagues *1315-1500 ACTUAL WORK* 1500-1600 Some meeting 1600 workday ends As you can see, that gives me less than 4 hours of "real" w…

I would hesitate to apply this in all situations, but in a lot of them, all the meetings, and maybe even the emails (although that seems excessive), help you when it comes to making decisions during the "actual" work portions of your day.

[deleted]

Re: Why not hire part-time developers?

#213

Post by closeparen »

yibg wrote: post #118
qrohlf wrote: post #10

I experienced this in the extreme recently. I'm a very experienced dev in a very in-demand field. Money is not a huge priority for me in my career. Flexibility is. I have a proven track record of success in part-time roles after converting to part time at my previous company (after 2 years of full-time, of course). I spent 3+ months trying to get part-time engagements, and was willing to consider both consulting and…

We’ve tried part time developers, but so far haven’t been able to do it successfully. The problem usually comes down to 2 things: 1) there is a constant amount of overhead that is always needed regardless of how long you work for in a week. Meetings and collaboration to figure out what to build, discuss issues etc. if these take up 10 hours a week a full time dev has 30 hours to do other things where as a half time d…

The communication overhead should not be constant - it should be proportional to the scope of responsibility.

As a full time senior engineer I’m responsible for oversight and guidance on three separate work-streams, so I have to go to all their meetings. If I were part time then I could be involved in just one of them, and go to only those meetings.

Re: Why not hire part-time developers?

#214

Post by mattm »

rtlfe wrote: post #195
cloogshicer wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meetings and collaboration to figure out what to build, discuss issues etc. if these take up 10 hours a week [...] There's your problem.

What's the alternative? Have some PM+EM write a perfectly detailed spec for you to implement? That sounds like hell. I can't imagine spending all my time building something that I had no input on designing.

For some engineers that would be bliss. They just want to churn through tickets and not have to talk to anyone (or very little).

Re: Why not hire part-time developers?

#215

Post by asdff »

I'm honestly surprised at the amount of pushback against part time work in this thread. When you hire a consultant or contract labor, isn't that basically what you are doing? Bringing in part time labor?

I think a lot of the complaints about it not scaling well (need to pay for two healthcare plans for two part time employees vs 1 full time, etc) also don't make any sense. Isn't money fungible? Who cares who exactly is in charge of the chunk of money that gets spent on healthcare for the employee at the time? Just pay people in cash just like you would another small business you are contracting with, and let the employee use a portion of that cash flow to pay for their healthcare and other benefits programs, just like what happens with the small business you contract with. The rate they quote you to pay them should therefore be including both the cost of their labor and their overhead. In other words, treat these employees like independent small businesses, and all the hand wringing and consternation should just melt away. And who knows, maybe these employees will really run with this small business consultancy model and build and expand their business in their own right.

Re: Why not hire part-time developers?

#216

Post by n8ta »

closeparen wrote: post #213
yibg wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’ve tried part time developers, but so far haven’t been able to do it successfully. The problem usually comes down to 2 things: 1) there is a constant amount of overhead that is always needed regardless of how long you work for in a week. Meetings and collaboration to figure out what to build, discuss issues etc. if these take up 10 hours a week a full time dev has 30 hours to do other things where as a half time d…

The communication overhead should not be constant - it should be proportional to the scope of responsibility. As a full time senior engineer I’m responsible for oversight and guidance on three separate work-streams, so I have to go to all their meetings. If I were part time then I could be involved in just one of them, and go to only those meetings.

Hr setup/issues, all company meetings, team meetings, onboarding to company specific tooling, keeping up to date with team strategic direction, manager 1on1; none of these scale with responsibility.

Re: Why not hire part-time developers?

#217

Post by asdff »

issa wrote: post #2

I think your basic premise might not be correct. If you only are getting 4 productive hours of work done per day, then something is wrong. I would say you probably only get 4 productive hours of WRITING CODE (maybe much less), but during that long lunch break, or bike ride, or whatever, you are probably thinking about the problem (consciously or not). If you work part time on two different projects, you simply won't…

I think another part of it is that rarely are you employed to do one single thing for 8 hours a day. So yes, I do only have 4 productive hours a day for this one project, because I am spending the other hours focused on the other projects and tasks laid in my lap by my employer.

Re: Why not hire part-time developers?

#218

Post by GauntletWizard »

asdff wrote: post #215

I'm honestly surprised at the amount of pushback against part time work in this thread. When you hire a consultant or contract labor, isn't that basically what you are doing? Bringing in part time labor? I think a lot of the complaints about it not scaling well (need to pay for two healthcare plans for two part time employees vs 1 full time, etc) also don't make any sense. Isn't money fungible? Who cares who exactly…

A lot of consulting is done for 1-3 month sprints. It's often (neither always or for all people, but for many people much of the time) a lot mentally easier to work full time on a project for a month to six than to work for 20 hours a week on a project all of the time.

I'm a full time part time consultant and try to arrange my schedule for weeks at at time with individual customers, even if I do some small work as hours at a time.

Re: Why not hire part-time developers?

#219

Post by zackify »

yibg wrote: post #118
qrohlf wrote: post #10

I experienced this in the extreme recently. I'm a very experienced dev in a very in-demand field. Money is not a huge priority for me in my career. Flexibility is. I have a proven track record of success in part-time roles after converting to part time at my previous company (after 2 years of full-time, of course). I spent 3+ months trying to get part-time engagements, and was willing to consider both consulting and…

We’ve tried part time developers, but so far haven’t been able to do it successfully. The problem usually comes down to 2 things: 1) there is a constant amount of overhead that is always needed regardless of how long you work for in a week. Meetings and collaboration to figure out what to build, discuss issues etc. if these take up 10 hours a week a full time dev has 30 hours to do other things where as a half time d…

If I worked somewhere with 10 hours a week needed for meetings and plannings I would quit.

Who cares if they have 6 jobs, that’s not for you to worry about.

If they get good work done on your project and skip the extra meetings, they’re worth keeping around.

Re: Why not hire part-time developers?

#220

Post by asdff »

issa wrote: post #105
TrackerFF wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll throw out a typical day for me, a data analyst: 0800 workday starts 0800-0830 daily standup 0830-0930 check and reply to emails *0930-1100 ACTUAL WORK* 1100-1130 lunch 1130-1200 check and reply to emails 1200-1300 meeting with [some product] team over 1300-1315 coffee break with colleagues *1315-1500 ACTUAL WORK* 1500-1600 Some meeting 1600 workday ends As you can see, that gives me less than 4 hours of "real" w…

I would hesitate to apply this in all situations, but in a lot of them, all the meetings, and maybe even the emails (although that seems excessive), help you when it comes to making decisions during the "actual" work portions of your day.

Depends on your situation of course. If your meetings are all 100% productive and relevant to you, hats off to your manager.
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