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Earth-like planet spotted orbiting Sun’s closest star

nature.com

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Re: Earth-like planet spotted orbiting Sun’s closest star

#211

Post by T-A »

monkeywork wrote: post #176
uwuemu wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A probe based on nuclear pulse propulsion could do it in around 50 years, with today's technology. It's not that we can't do it fast (within one average human lifespan), it's that the project would be very expensive and something like Nasa has a relatively tight budget. I mean we, as humanity, have to have an eccentric billionaire start a Martian fire (SpaceX Starship) under our lazy asses to even start to think abou…

Do you have any suggested reading about: "A probe based on nuclear pulse propulsion could do it in around 50 years, with today's technology." I was always under the impression that these vast distances were basically entire unreachable in several human lifetimes.

The canonical reference is Project Daedalus:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Daedalus

Re: Earth-like planet spotted orbiting Sun’s closest star

#213

Post by mannerheim »

spaetzleesser wrote: post #64
uwuemu wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A probe based on nuclear pulse propulsion could do it in around 50 years, with today's technology. It's not that we can't do it fast (within one average human lifespan), it's that the project would be very expensive and something like Nasa has a relatively tight budget. I mean we, as humanity, have to have an eccentric billionaire start a Martian fire (SpaceX Starship) under our lazy asses to even start to think abou…

Going to Mars seems pretty useless to me at this time. It’s a super hostile environment and we don’t have the technology yet to have a self sustaining base there. Give it a few decades and progress in robotics will make a Mars base much easier. There is plenty of work to be done on Earth. We have to solve clean energy production and in general reduce pollution. These are massive technological challenges that deserve…

Mars can already be useful as a springboard for space exploration. It's a literal stepping stone, both closer to the belt and outer planets in terms of distance, but also in terms of delta-v, since both the gravity well on Mars is smaller, and it's higher up in the Sun's gravity well, too. Any future space exploration and exploitation will be made tremendously easier if you can launch from Mars instead of Earth.

Re: Earth-like planet spotted orbiting Sun’s closest star

#214

Post by slim »

ncmncm wrote: post #201
avsteele wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good catch "With the small stellar radius, Proxima d ... equilibrium temperature may reach 360K," NB: Earth's is 255K. Venus 260K, Mars 215K. So this doesn't tell the whole story, but is probably quite hot.

It is certainly tidally locked. So it has a hot side, a cold side, and an intermediate ring at the terminator. Probably not very comfortable.

hmm seems like a good candidate for paradise/hell /s

Re: Earth-like planet spotted orbiting Sun’s closest star

#215

Post by alsaaro »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #60
uwuemu wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A probe based on nuclear pulse propulsion could do it in around 50 years, with today's technology. It's not that we can't do it fast (within one average human lifespan), it's that the project would be very expensive and something like Nasa has a relatively tight budget. I mean we, as humanity, have to have an eccentric billionaire start a Martian fire (SpaceX Starship) under our lazy asses to even start to think abou…

Maybe an unpopular opinion, but Musk is just plain wrong when he thinks there is any urgency to Mars exploration (or it's just vicarious arguments because rockets are cool). Basically, the tech you need to make a Mars colony truly self sufficient is something like a compact fusion powerplant. Before we have that, no point in worrying about using Mars as a "backup plan", because if Earth was screwed, Mars would have a…

One conceivable reason to colonize Mars is real estate.

Perhaps in the near future life extension technology will become common place, people may continue to have kids, but natural deaths may be rare; the human population will increase exponentially and need somewhere to live and something to do -- terraforming Mars in exchange for property may be reasonable.

Re: Earth-like planet spotted orbiting Sun’s closest star

#216

Post by qwytw »

chrisco255 wrote: post #147
uwuemu wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A probe based on nuclear pulse propulsion could do it in around 50 years, with today's technology. It's not that we can't do it fast (within one average human lifespan), it's that the project would be very expensive and something like Nasa has a relatively tight budget. I mean we, as humanity, have to have an eccentric billionaire start a Martian fire (SpaceX Starship) under our lazy asses to even start to think abou…

Why is it weird that a private corporation is doing space exploration & technology? Most of the biggest sailing expeditions were undertaken by private individuals and companies (although often under the funding of a royal family). Locomotives and airplanes were also created and perfected by private individuals / companies. The 1950s-2000s NASA model for space exploration was unusual in its centralized approach.

Most of those private expeditions were seeking short term profit (of course there exceptions like the Arctic/Antarctic expeditions but their budgets were relatively insignificant compared to the resources required to send several ships to India or the Americas in the 15th century or a spaceship to Mars. Even if colonizing and exploiting the mineral resources on Mars could be profitable in the longterm being the first on Mars (unlike being the first to sail to India) is definitely going to cost more than it's worth (in financial terms) so no rational private company would do this.

Re: Earth-like planet spotted orbiting Sun’s closest star

#217

Post by mauvehaus »

spaetzleesser wrote: post #64
uwuemu wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A probe based on nuclear pulse propulsion could do it in around 50 years, with today's technology. It's not that we can't do it fast (within one average human lifespan), it's that the project would be very expensive and something like Nasa has a relatively tight budget. I mean we, as humanity, have to have an eccentric billionaire start a Martian fire (SpaceX Starship) under our lazy asses to even start to think abou…

Going to Mars seems pretty useless to me at this time. It’s a super hostile environment and we don’t have the technology yet to have a self sustaining base there. Give it a few decades and progress in robotics will make a Mars base much easier. There is plenty of work to be done on Earth. We have to solve clean energy production and in general reduce pollution. These are massive technological challenges that deserve…

Because it's there

https://blog.theclymb.com/out-there/because-its-there-the-qu...

Re: Earth-like planet spotted orbiting Sun’s closest star

#218

Post by at_a_remove »

iam-TJ wrote: post #108
Udo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it enjoyable to think about the technologies that might just be in the cards further into the future. If we ever figure out light-weight fusion drives, we could build light hugger space ships that accelerate to a decent fraction of the speed of light. At 1g acceleration it takes about one year to get to 0.9c, which would make the Proxima system accessible with a travel time of about 6 years. Or 8 years at 0.5g…

Whenever I read discussions about space travel and trying to approach the speed of light for human travel I have the feeling there's a lot of tunnel vision (excuse the pun). It always seems to assume travelling along a linear path through space. In my mind, using the admittedly poor analogy of space-time as a membrane that is distorted by gravity, my thinking is we'll find some way to effectively bring two points in…

I've never bought it. It will still involve being able to transfer information FTL, and then you're on to the Grandfather Paradox.

On top of it, let's handwave all of this away, poof. Any aliens anywhere in the Universe would also be using it once their technology got to that level. Just from the lack of visitors, we have three possibilities that are immediately evident:

1) Humans are among the first intelligent species to get to this technology in the entire Universe.

2) Other species have it, but all of them, every last far-flung one of them, even the renegade civilizations or the mad scientists at the individual level, abide by not using it around humans. Despite all of their numerous reasoning capacities and utterly inhuman motivations, every last sophont with access to the tech has agreed upon this, and has for thousands of years.

3) That tech can't exist.

The first and second are unlikely, statistically.

Re: Earth-like planet spotted orbiting Sun’s closest star

#219

Post by qwytw »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #171
ethbr0 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an argument to be made that some of the current largest market cap companies in the world are analogous to royal families, in terms of centralization of capital vs freedom of decision making.

The notable difference is that they don't have a monopoly on violence

Most premodern states (at least) in Europe didn't really have a monopoly on violence in the strict sense either. Kings were constrained by a variety of laws and customs which they couldn't easily change without triggering violent opposition and had to co-opt the local elites (who usually acted as independent actors) whenever they wanted to impose their will outside of the area they directly controlled. Even an 'absolute' ruler like Louis XVI had very limited direct power compared to many modern governments.

Re: Earth-like planet spotted orbiting Sun’s closest star

#220

Post by jl6 »

akamoonknight wrote: post #205
ethbr0 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a good collection of details about the entire star system of Proxima Centauri, including its planets. https://www.star-facts.com/proxima-centauri/ Also fascinating, a relative distance vs time graph of close stars. It turns out we'll have closer distances for 6 in the next 10,000 - 50,000 years. https://www.star-facts.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Neares... Somehow I feel like Elon Musk has a print out of tha…

Making an assumption here about Proxima Centauri's own Oort Cloud, but seems like if it's the same size as ours, they'd overlap? Seems like a potentially interesting way for "stuff" to get transferred from one solar system to another.

I believe we are discovering that space isn’t as empty as we once imagined. Rock-hopping could be a viable method of (slow) interstellar travel.
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