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Booking.com is moving its customer service staff to an outsourcing company

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Re: Booking.com is moving its customer service staff to an outsourcing company

#211

Post by V__ »

soco wrote: post #146
em500 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not illegal to fire people in Germany. But just like most of Europe they need to provide some "just cause [1]", unlike in the US where there are a lot more "at-will [2]" employment contracts. Left wing economist believe this is a great feature that makes lives much better for employees. Right wing economists believes this a bad feature that only protects incumbent employees and makes employers less inclined to h…

I guess it could be helpful to check some comparison indices - economy, satisfaction, life quality...

I mean, one could... but we all know reality has this pesky leftist bias. So what's the point? /s

Re: Booking.com is moving its customer service staff to an outsourcing company

#212

Post by MomoXenosaga »

NumberCruncher wrote: post #57

In Germany this isn't a legal move. One of my former employees (global telco everyone knows) tried to do the same, namely moving the contracts of the employees to an other company. 200 of them started a class action and won easily. The company had to terminate their contracts (which means the employees are eligible for unemployment benefits, etc.) and had to pay a good severance. Something like (years of employment)…

The Netherlands has liberalized worker rights to the point it would make Elon Musk cry.

This place is a weird mix of Marxism and laissez-faire capitalism.

Re: Booking.com is moving its customer service staff to an outsourcing company

#213

Post by ensignavenger »

GhostVII wrote: post #205
kuu wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is that in many countries of Europe (an maybe somewhere else too) we consider that a company is not only a way for the owners to make money, but they have a social value and responsibility. Therefore you cannot just fire 200 people to hire another 200 cheaper, because that's a way to increase only company's profit but not society benefit. And if you fire them, you need to compensate them properly. Of course…

So it sounds like in Germany, you can fire people to hire another 200 cheaper, you just have to compensate them for that firing. Just like in the US if you fire someone without cause, they get unemployment payments funded by their previous employers unemployment insurance (which goes up the more people they fire). And this isn't even relevant to what is happening with Booking.com. No one is being explicitly fired, th…

Constructive dismissal laws vary by state- but generally, if the compensation and job duties remain substantially the same, it won't be constructive dismissal in the US. The post alludes to the possibility that the new company will make changes after 6 months... if they substantially reduce compensation at that time or substantially change the nature of the job, their us employees would probably qualify for unemployment.

Notably, the Reddit poster is from France, so this sin't a "US vs Europe" thing as some other comentors are trying to make it out.

Also, looking at https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/social-security/unemploym..., seems unemployment in Germany is similiar, but in some situations less than in the US- though it can also, in some situations, last longer.

Re: Booking.com is moving its customer service staff to an outsourcing company

#214

Post by pjmlp »

GhostVII wrote: post #205
kuu wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is that in many countries of Europe (an maybe somewhere else too) we consider that a company is not only a way for the owners to make money, but they have a social value and responsibility. Therefore you cannot just fire 200 people to hire another 200 cheaper, because that's a way to increase only company's profit but not society benefit. And if you fire them, you need to compensate them properly. Of course…

So it sounds like in Germany, you can fire people to hire another 200 cheaper, you just have to compensate them for that firing. Just like in the US if you fire someone without cause, they get unemployment payments funded by their previous employers unemployment insurance (which goes up the more people they fire). And this isn't even relevant to what is happening with Booking.com. No one is being explicitly fired, th…

That is not legal in Germany, because that requires a new contract, which you can refuse to accept and have to be compensated for.

Meaning, it does happen, but it requires the workers and union to accept it actually takes place, the company cannot just decide on their own that they will do it and that is it.

Re: Booking.com is moving its customer service staff to an outsourcing company

#215

Post by sundache »

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #212
NumberCruncher wrote: post #57

In Germany this isn't a legal move. One of my former employees (global telco everyone knows) tried to do the same, namely moving the contracts of the employees to an other company. 200 of them started a class action and won easily. The company had to terminate their contracts (which means the employees are eligible for unemployment benefits, etc.) and had to pay a good severance. Something like (years of employment)…

The Netherlands has liberalized worker rights to the point it would make Elon Musk cry. This place is a weird mix of Marxism and laissez-faire capitalism.

They CS people in Amsterdam aren't getting fired though.

Re: Booking.com is moving its customer service staff to an outsourcing company

#216

Post by pjmlp »

oblio wrote: post #97
charcircuit wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it illegal to fire people in Germany?

Because they're not firing. They're jerks, trying to force them out by moving them to a crap subsidiary without benefits, maybe forced relocation to another country (!), etc. Firing people means paying severance. They want to avoid doing that and for obvious reasons in many countries that's illegal. I guess they figured possible lawsuits are cheaper.

In Germany, there needs to be a work agreement in place for mass movement like this, signed by employees and union.

Unfortunely for the Dutch employees that doesn't seem to be the case in Netherlands.

Re: Booking.com is moving its customer service staff to an outsourcing company

#217

Post by Kaibeezy »

Freak_NL wrote: post #130
Kaibeezy wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except hotels.com has been a nightmare lately too. The f-ing penguins! I’ll try to find an article and post it.

Penguins?

Penguins. Suddenly, I have to do a double captcha not only on the website but on the iOS app too, every time. Find the penguin. Find another penguin. Congratulations, you're human.

Re: Booking.com is moving its customer service staff to an outsourcing company

#218

Post by fatnoah »

onion2k wrote: post #3

They're outsourcing their customer services. Thia is actually quite annoying, because the one time I've used their customer services they were really good. I needed to cancel half of a reservation (booked for 2 nights, needed to leave early), and the hotel staff said they couldn't do that as I'd booked through a third party. I called Booking.com and they made it happen. Hopefully whoever they outsource to can continu…

>Hopefully whoever they outsource to can continue the good work.

I've never seen this go well. My most recent experience is one of many where "improvements" were terrible for me as a customer.

Amerigas, a national propane company, did the same thing the year before last. When I needed someone, I'd call the local office and talk to someone who knew the area and the business and would get whatever question or issue resolved almost immediately. When they "improved" customer service by firing all of these local people and consolidated them into a (not offshore, at least) customer service center, it was a total nightmare.

We were in the middle of a backyard renovation that required burying the propane line for our grill and stove. I called the local office and scheduled everything a couple months in advance. When the appointment time came, I received a notification that it was going to be delayed by a week, which would also hold up my project at a cost of $1000/day to pay for an idle crew and their equipment. Unfortunately, between the time I made the appointment and the time I called to see if it could be moved back, the customer service "upgrade" happened.

Every rep was super friendly, but no one had any knowledge of the business and every call required about 40 minutes of hold time just to speak with someone, 10 minutes of conversation, and then another 40 minutes of hold time to speak with the supervisor who was more knowledgable. Even the supservisors didn't have answers and would promise to call back by the end of the day. Of course, out of the 5-6 conversations we had with that promise, exactly zero resulted in a callback. When the work was finally done, it was done without a permit, which could only be pulled by the gas company, so the project was on hold again until that was resolved.

In the end, I had to find a customer service VP on LinkedIn and send them a very polite note about the "unpermitted gas line work" done on my property. That resulted in the issue being resolved the very next day. Before the upgrade, I could have spoken directly with the local rep, who would then just speak to the local tech, and resolve things almost immediately every time.

Re: Booking.com is moving its customer service staff to an outsourcing company

#219

Post by thriftwy »

nkmnz wrote: post #200

I once booked the worst hotel room on earth via booking.com - I spare you the details, but when I picked the lowest rating on every single scale on the booking.com feedback form, the resulting score was something like ~3.5 out of 10 – instead of 0 points! So, whenever you're looking for a a place on booking.com, keep in mind that the places are rated on a scale from 3.5 to 10, not 0 to 10.

I think any Booking user knows that 8+ - awesome, 7+ - okay, less than 7 - handle with care.

At least it's more consistent than "star ratings"

Re: Booking.com is moving its customer service staff to an outsourcing company

#220

Post by supergeek133 »

My first large employer was Best Buy, and at the time (and I believe still?) a large majority of their phone customer service operation was outsourced.

I will still never understand why companies do this. Your quite literal last line of defense (and sometimes first) with a customer is people that aren't directly accountable other than a corporate contract? Never made sense to me.

Also, the fact that they are generally the lowest paid is also bizzare.

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